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WHEN IS CHANGE DUE

  • downbutnotout
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22 Mar 10 #193696 by downbutnotout
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Arnie - I empathise with many of your views about the family law system being flawed and inefficient - but some of your comments about the legal contributors on this forum are unfounded.

We do on occassion get a new legal professional arrive and attempt to use the forum as a sales/marketing vehicle - but as soon as they realise that we do not permit that - they tend to leave very quickly.

The long term dedicated legal contributors on the forum are all volunteers with absolutely nothing to gain commercially. Indeed I am not even aware of which firms they work for or used to work for (in the case of the retired / semi-retired).

Your earlier comment that Wikivorce is just another law firm is incorrect - we are a support community and a social enterprise, no-one involved on the core team is from a legal background or has any legal qualifications. We are people who have been through divorce - that is how we met each other, and that is what unites us.

I think you are looking for change in the wrong places. I very much doubt that rapid change will be driven by the government, the law makers or the legal profession. I also doubt that lobbying can drive structural change in anything like a reasonable time frame.

Wikivorce is the change.

Wikivorce is driving change by:
- increasing access to free information
- facilitating the sharing of knowledge and experiences
- helping people realise that they are not in this alone
- increasing consumer choice
- driving down legal costs
- providing access to affordable services for people who no longer qualify for legal aid due to funding cuts
- increasing awareness of mediation and collaborative law
- helping to promote better solutions such as voluntary parental agreements rather than contested contact battles
etc
etc

Look at how change has been driven in other areas: flights across europe are not cheaper and more convenient than ever before because Stelios and Michael O'Leary lobbied parliament or ranted at the BA management. Change happened because the founders of Easyjet and Ryanair created a better alternative - they MADE change happen.

Wikivorce is changing the landscape of family law right now - blink and you will miss it.

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22 Mar 10 #193701 by Arnie Saccnuson
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Look at how change has been driven in other areas: flights across europe are not cheaper and more convenient than ever before because Stelios and Michael O'Leary lobbied parliament or ranted at the BA management. Change happened because the founders of Easyjet and Ryanair created a better alternative - they MADE change happen.


Agreed

You are doing more than anybody else or any other organisation that I know of, but I am really uncomfortable with the numerous commercial links on this site and you can dress that up however you wish but that doesn't change the reality.

Some of what I say is to provoke a reaction, not really from you but from others. I know from linkage from this site to my site just how many Legal Firms frequent these forums as I suspect you know from own web data.

I do come from a position that the legal class is fundamentally flawed and change from within is not possible, but forgive the pun, the jury is out and lets see what wiki has become and what actual change you have achieved five years from now. My fear is that your income stream is derived from the legal class and that compromises your ability to affect any significant or lasting change.

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22 Mar 10 #193705 by downbutnotout
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As a social enterprise, Wikivorce receives no charitable donations and no government funding [ well not yet anyway - I am trying ;-)]. So, you are correct - we do need to generate some income to be able to afford to develop and deliver the many free services that we provide.

But we don't have to accept the status quo. We can drive innovation, widen consumer choice and improve customer service.

In 5 years time the way people access family law services will be very different than it is today - because we will drive change in that area. If we kept our scope down to just providing chat rooms and a forum, then in 5 years time solicitors would be running things in the same way that they do now. We have to get involved in the service side to drive change in that area - it won't happen on its own.

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23 Mar 10 #193707 by Arnie Saccnuson
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I understand all that but
Over 50,000 members
3000+ visitors a day
1 NEW visitor per minute

£1 per year membership or personally if I were in divorce I would happily pay £25 a year and I have been bankrupt since 2004, and then there are donations.

Who knows.

I know that this portal has a lot of the legal class on it and they now know my name and Mr Blah Blah's name, but how long before you are made to shut me up. I am about to light the blue touch paper with the telly tubbies it will be interesting to see if you feel the heat
:-)

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23 Mar 10 #193710 by Arnie Saccnuson
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And also transparency is the key, so are you planning or do you currently post your funding arrangements?

The trouble is Ian, game theory is entirely correct and nobody does something for nothing, its fuk you buddy and what's in it for me, human nature, the selfish gene, sad but true

" class="bbcode_url" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=""> and HERE

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23 Mar 10 #193719 by Elle
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Arnie Saccnuson wrote:


Some of what I say is to provoke a reaction, not really from you but from others. I know from linkage from this site to my site just how many Legal Firms frequent these forums as I suspect you know from own web data.

I do come from a position that the legal class is fundamentally flawed and change from within is not possible


Arnie,

Change requires the efforts of the man in the street and as we well know the few that do are drained from their own battles. The few that pro actively sought for self regulation of Scots legal practitioners were embroiled in their own litigation, but
soldiered on...was long time coming and indeed remains to be seen how effectual as yet. Too many with lots to say and no other input towards driving change is as ever a hinderance.

As you say, high volume of hits from legal practitioners, but no input towards real change...but hey thats because clients do not like what they hear or clients are emotional or some other excuse...it is so never to be incompetence/greed/inaccuracy/complacency/arrogance/dishonesty...as we are constantly reminded this fine professions practitioners are honest decent professionals.

The Court statements say it all....eg the sol admits not having prepared for the hearing, the client picks up the costs, the suffering party has further litigation to get these costs from said client, said client then has to litigate if he wants the costs modified or paid by the offending sol...plenty of work for the legals and a plate more crap for the clients.

The client whose life is in limbo with a useless sol must not criticise...sols are excrutiatingly sensitive to their failings being addressed...and their regulators even more so!

I have witnessed many sols being exposed at meetings for change to our legal system. These honest upstanding sols sneak into meetings for change...to help drive change...I think not!

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23 Mar 10 #193722 by yoy
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self rep.. its the only way you know your going to fight your fight ... youve no other clients to compete with .. lawyers are pretty busy with their 100+ others .. its not rocket science most of its pretty much set in stone.. only you can fight your corner with the vigor it requires, empower yourself - do it yourself, thats what I say - you can do it so do it dont rely upon someone else to, your paying them doesnt mean they are going to give you any more than 30 mins out of their day one a week if your lucky!

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