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Fathers for justice

  • stepper
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9 years 3 months ago #278939 by stepper
Replied by stepper on topic Re:Fathers for justice
It is the right of the child to have contact with both parents.

It is not the right of the father to demand it, nor is it the right of the mother to withhold it.

When marriages break down I firmly support shared residencies. Of course as the children get older, they are free to make their own choices but hopefully they will still want both parents in their lives.

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  • .Charles
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9 years 3 months ago #279001 by .Charles
Replied by .Charles on topic Re:Fathers for justice
sillywoman wrote:

Sorry, I carried my children for over 9 months and then gave birth to them and fed them. No father would ever take them away from me (obviously unless I was unfit through alcoholism, or the like).

Some fathers leave their wives saying that they are divorcing their wife and not their children???????? Especially, if they are leaving for another woman, how does the mother of his children feel? Of course by divorcing the mother, the father is divorcing the children and vice versa.

I do not believe that a father should ever have custody of a child unless the mother specifically wants this to happen or she has some health issue which does not enable her, even with support, to be able to care for the child full time.

My ex husband has turned into a bitter horrible man, although he is living with another woman. He has seen only one of our children once this year and that meeting took place with him constantly \"slagging\" me off, even though our daughter (17 at the time) asked him to stop doing this. She has not seen him since, nor does she want to.

Sometimes, it is better for all concerned if children do not have contact with the absent parent, sorry, it just is.


It is difficult to know what to say about this post other than your sample case of 1 is not representative of the nation and of the construction of our laws.

There are many cases where the 'traditional' roles of housewife and (male) breadwinner are reversed and the father assumes care of the children, thus allowing the mother to return to her employment. If that scenario persisted for, say, 10 years and the parties separated would it be reasonable for the mother to assume primary care of the children even though she didn’t provide primary care previously?

In another situation, if a mother does shift work or work that involves unsociable hours – how would child care work? Would it be reasonable for the children to be placed with a child carer rather than live with the father (who for the sake of this scenario works Monday to Friday, 9-5)?

And a third scenario: where civil partners have children (let's say they are adopted) and they subsequently separate, who has the children? You will need two answers for this – one where the civil partners are male, and the second where the civil partners are female.


Charles

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  • rubytuesday
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9 years 3 months ago #279009 by rubytuesday
Replied by rubytuesday on topic Re:Fathers for justice
sillywoman wrote:

Sorry, I carried my children for over 9 months and then gave birth to them and fed them. No father would ever take them away from me (obviously unless I was unfit through alcoholism, or the like).

Some fathers leave their wives saying that they are divorcing their wife and not their children???????? Especially, if they are leaving for another woman, how does the mother of his children feel? Of course by divorcing the mother, the father is divorcing the children and vice versa.

I do not believe that a father should ever have custody of a child unless the mother specifically wants this to happen or she has some health issue which does not enable her, even with support, to be able to care for the child full time.

My ex husband has turned into a bitter horrible man, although he is living with another woman. He has seen only one of our children once this year and that meeting took place with him constantly \"slagging\" me off, even though our daughter (17 at the time) asked him to stop doing this. She has not seen him since, nor does she want to.

Sometimes, it is better for all concerned if children do not have contact with the absent parent, sorry, it just is.


I had to read this post a number of time to ensure that I hadn't misread it :S

We really need to move away from the unfounded belief that mothers are better parents simply because they gave birth to the children. To continue with this mis-guided belief strengthens the feminist argument that fathers are second class parents. I believe in equality - not feminism (hard hat on now

Both parents, regardless of gender, are of equal importance in an child's life and are equally capable of raising a child.

When my parents divorced, my father bought myself and my sister up - I found out many years later that our mother didn't want custody (as the term was then) of either of us - but esp me. My Dad has always, and still is, the better parent in terms of his parenting skills and guidance - that doesn't mean my mother doesn't care about us, but her approach to parenting isn't something that I would recommend.

Fathers do not divorce their children when they divorce the mother - that's utter twaddle! Just look at the number of posts we have here daily from fathers who are being denied contact for no real reason, who are falsely accused of all sorts of unsavory actions, who have fought tooth and nail through the courts simply to secure a small amount of time with their own children - their flesh and blood. If fathers divorced their children along with the mother, would they then endure all this heartache int trying to secure time with their children???

Fathers play a very positive role in their children's lives - they are of equal importance to the mother. I have an excellent relationship with my Dad, we share a very close bond, he is the one person who I can always rely on - and simply because he didn't give birth to me doesn't mean that he is a lesser parent.

I know that you have had a very difficult time with your ex-husband, and that his relationships with his children aren't what you would hope they would be - but please don't tar all fathers with the same brush.

Am off now to look out my body armor :s

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  • WhiteRose
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9 years 3 months ago #279023 by WhiteRose
Replied by WhiteRose on topic Re:Fathers for justice
sillywoman wrote:

Sorry, I carried my children for over 9 months and then gave birth to them and fed them. No father would ever take them away from me (obviously unless I was unfit through alcoholism, or the like).

Some fathers leave their wives saying that they are divorcing their wife and not their children???????? Especially, if they are leaving for another woman, how does the mother of his children feel? Of course by divorcing the mother, the father is divorcing the children and vice versa.

I do not believe that a father should ever have custody of a child unless the mother specifically wants this to happen or she has some health issue which does not enable her, even with support, to be able to care for the child full time.

My ex husband has turned into a bitter horrible man, although he is living with another woman. He has seen only one of our children once this year and that meeting took place with him constantly \"slagging\" me off, even though our daughter (17 at the time) asked him to stop doing this. She has not seen him since, nor does she want to.

Sometimes, it is better for all concerned if children do not have contact with the absent parent, sorry, it just is.


:ohmy:I disagree ....... I do think BOTH parents have equal importance in their child's life. Yes, only one brings them into the world, but this doesn't mean a Mother can love a child more than a Father.

Divorce is a horrible experience for all - how can you separate yourself from your spouse who you no longer love without separating yourself from the children also? Recently on here I've read a couple of posts where couples have managed to separate and still provide loving homes and a stable environment for their children, and its admirable.

Its not 'Divorce' that disturbs or upsets the children, its the actions and reactions of the parents ..............

Parents do manage to separate the love for their children to the divorce and relationship of wife/husband with 'parent'. Parents can manage to hide their raw feelings for the other and protect the children, allowing them to have a healthy and happy relationship with both parents (no, its not a fairy tale - it CAN be done!)

So we know it can happen - there are people out there doing it, making it work, managing to achieve it ........ however there are other cases where it doesn't happen. Problem is when things don't work - the finger points at the other parent - blame apportioned at each other.

It makes me think of something I read on here recently (paraphrasing) 'the parents hate each other more than they love their children.'

WR

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  • .Charles
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9 years 3 months ago #279025 by .Charles
Replied by .Charles on topic Re:Fathers for justice
rubytuesday wrote:

I had to read this post a number of time to ensure that I hadn't misread it :S

We really need to move away from the unfounded belief that mothers are better parents simply because they gave birth to the children.


Presumably, where the children are adopted, another rule applies. Quite what that rule is and to whom it applies is beyond my ken..

Charles

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  • pixy
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9 years 3 months ago #279027 by pixy
Replied by pixy on topic Re:Fathers for justice
Oh dear Ruby now you have upset me, lol. Feminism is not about women being superior to men, it is about equality. Thus as a dyed in the wool feminist I am entirely in agreement with you that no one should assume parenting skills are a matter of gender. As it happens it is likely that the primary carer will be a woman but that is a matter of cultural expectation which happily is changing.

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9 years 3 months ago #279031 by WhiteRose
Replied by WhiteRose on topic Re:Fathers for justice
pixy wrote:

As it happens it is likely that the primary carer will be a woman but that is a matter of cultural expectation which happily is changing.


Pixy - I agree - however being a 'Primary Carer' doesn't mean you love your child more than the non-primary carer .........

To all - Surely rather than continuing the argument about which gender loves the child more, the debate should be on the best interests and healthy upbringing of the child(ren) - surely BOTH parents want whats best for the child and should find a way of putting aside what they feel about each other to maintain the best for the child(rens)!!

Oh, I'm so idealistic and naive :blush:

WR

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