Fathers for justice

I've never really understood the point of view that Pixy is expressing here. All right-thinking people believe in equality, so why do we need a special name for them?

If we use feminism to describe a belief in equality, then we need to find another name for the political belief, which is cognate with Marxism, which holds that women are all subjugated by a patriarchal hegemony and marriage and the family must be abolished, that all men are inherently violent and that contact between children and their separated fathers must be resisted.

Such beliefs are alarmingly common and lead to the vile and dangerous sexist bigotry Sillywoman exhibits. When views like that become the norm, then belief in equality is regarded as extremism.

That's an interesting set of beliefs you describe, Forseti, but they do not add up to feminism - not even Marxist feminism, to which some of what you say bears a vague relation.

Feminism is concerned with the need to put right social inequalities that by and large subjugate women but from which both men and women suffer in various ways.

Most feminists do not believe that all men are inherently violent, nor that contact between children and their separated fathers must be resisted. Most feminists don't hate men, either. Of course, some women (feminist or otherwise) do believe this sort of stuff, but then some men believe that all women are out to get them.

Best wishes,
Sadie

Most feminists that I have met have an axe to grind. Germaine Greer's early years were an example of this. She has mellowed over the last decade or so - the softer approach gives her more credability without diluting her message.

I would prefer to stamp out misogyny which is one of the most noisome traits that I encounter on a far too regular basis.

Charles

Well, I was presenting something of a caricature to prove a point, wasn't I, Sadie? But your comment,

Feminism is concerned with the need to put right social inequalities that by and large subjugate women

proves another point, which is that despite achieving huge gains, feminism has not modified its rhetoric in 40 years. The pendulum has swung far the other way, but feminists don't seem to have noticed and continue to present themselves as victims.

By the way, @ Charles, I was listening to Greer being interviewed on the radio the other day, and the things she was saying about little girls and their fathers would suggest she hasn't mellowed as much as you might think!

Gosh, what sweeping generalisatons you lot are into. But I stick to my guns (just little hand held guns not machine guns) - feminism like marxism and all sorts of other isms has many varieties but is fundamentally about equality, i.e. liberating both men and women from gender stereotypes. Gender stereotypes include, amongst many other things, the presumption that women are innately more nurturing than men and that men are innately violent and promiscuous. From Forseti's various posts aimed at helping dads secure access/custody of their children, I would have thought that liberation from gender stereotypes would be something he'd applaud.

I will now run for cover (or for a local hardware shop to buy some allen keys so I can defy my upbringing and do some diy). I count it as progress that at school my daughters were taught how to use tools other than a sewing machine.

Metric or imperial? Don't get caught out.

I'd certainly applaud you, Pixy (three cheers for Pixy!) but I'm not sure if your gentle, egalitarian feminism is representative.

As a 'primary carer' I'm happy to challenge gender stereotypes, but I'd rather get rid of terms like 'primary carer' entirely and develop a new vocabulary of shared and cooperative parenting!

Forseti wrote:

As a 'primary carer' I'm happy to challenge gender stereotypes, but I'd rather get rid of terms like 'primary carer' entirely and develop a new vocabulary of shared and cooperative parenting!

perhaps your new vocabulary might include fathers 4 justice an alpha male group determined to underline a perceived gender inequality in parenting