Contact and Child maintenance

I read through this with interest.
I have no answers, I have dealt with an ex who strived to exclud eme from my house and her life, succeeded in that, but also tried to exclude me from my kids lives.
Didnt amange that one.
I have paid cm via standing order since the day I moved into rented.
I am used to it now, its money I count as part of my now mortgage.
Generally ex''s deny contact for two reasons, 1, to get back at their ex''s and 2, because they just dont figure in their lives anymore and when its birthdays, events, aunty ethel''s birthday, they want the kids there. Forget the NRP.
My ex had the kids for EVERY special occasion during the first few years after we seperated, nothing I could do, except get a contact order and slowly close all the doors.
Its now not as flexible as it could be, but its how it has to be and it suits me.
She has had a few slaps on the wrist and it shouldnt have taken that.
Did I ever think of not paying, no, the kids still needed the support even if they didnt see me.
Even if the money was spent on vodka and fags.
We have created this ''society'' and what happens when parents split, I think for me there is little help in the first instance of parents splitting that in itself it too great a burden on the state.
ie, dead easy to get a sol to start the fight, harder to get relate and real help before that.
Maybe an answer is to have a kind of mediation but take away the niceties and have a thrash about, let off soem steam allow each other the time to vent off, maybe then a few ground rules and realisation would happen.

The biggest problem of seperated people is, no communication, generally forced.

Bob - you are perfectly correct when you say that the biggest problem when parents separate is lack of communication.

Following a recent attempt through the Courts to obtain 50/50 shared care which he did not achieve, my son walked over to his ex. at the end of the Hearing in the hope that he could re-start communicating with her.

So far it has succeeded but it is early days. They now e-mail each other and have spoken on the telephone. The children have had extra time with their dad which was always refused point blank by his ex. previously.

My ex. dil has made some vile accusations against my son in the hope of stopping contact altogether, including two false applications to the court. However it did not work and he still has a shared residence order plus half of all school holidays.

My son felt at the end of the Hearing that the best way forward was to put all the bitterness and hurt behind him and move on for the sake of the children. His ex. agreed with him that a fresh start would be best for the children.

mumtoboys wrote:

''I guess I was interested in whether or not you understood the complexity of wanting the best for your children and of dealing with the distress and upset involved in relationship breakdown - whichever side of the fence you might sit on (including the ''side'' of the children) - and how that might impact on individual''s actions when blocking contact/not paying maintenance. I think my own response to this issue would have been different as a partner without children than a partner with, which is why I asked!''

Mumtoboys,i don''t usually do this,but i will make an exception. i find this part of your post highly patronising and offensive.You have zilch right to publicly question other people''s level of intelligence and depth of understanding of an issue. So let me ask you this,if i had told you i didn''t have children,you would have said what? that i''m not qualified to put up this post? the fact of the matter is that you are the one that has completely missed the point of this post and of the many valid contributions on here. but i guess everyone knows what that means,though i will not say it.

this website is a highly valuable place that has attracted tons of people from all walks of life,with different experiences,opinions and outlook on life and its vagaries. and moreover,this is a topic i have thought a lot about because it is something i have experienced for over 4 years.

i have looked at it from the ex''s point of view,put myself in her shoes,tried to understand where she''s coming from and her psyche.i have sliced and diced the situation and finally, i asked myself the question: if i left my partner,would i block his contact except for the most compelling reasons?No,i will not. i will certainly not block it out of spite,anger and bitterness because he left me for someone else or whatever. i would certainly not do it for 4 years and counting,because if i had any shred of common sense,i would know this was not healthy for my kids! if he makes all the necessary efforts and shows his commitment(like my partner has been doing)and pays maintenance regularly(not to mention tons of extras on top for my kids,i will certainly not do it. that is why i came on here to say that RPs who block contact out of spite should be held more accountable.

i don''t need to explain myself to you,but i have just done so to help you see where i am coming from,and that your question and subsequent explanation was totally out of place and came from the very wrong assumption that people that have no children might not be ''qualified'' or intelligent enough to ''understand the complexity of wanting the best for your children''. and what can be better for a child than to have a meaningful relationship with both parents,provided that the parents,esp the NRP is a stable,well-meaning individual?

wanting the best for your children means equipping them properly for the life ahead of them,and that includes emotionally,financially and psychologically.and that is quite simple enough for anyone to understand,whether they have children or not.

sillywoman wrote:

I am a strong believer that children need both parents, unless of course there is a history of child abuse.

My ex was a dreadful husband, but a good dad. The children have very fond memories of good times with him and we do recall them, as just because he no longer has contact with them I do not want to think unduly badly of him.

However, because he cant have me, he doesn''t want a relationshp with them.

Parenting classes would be good for fathers/mothers who wish to absolve all responsbility of their children to the hands of the resident parent to perhaps help enable them to see that their children need them. Maybe more absent parents would then want to reform relationshps with their children which would be good for all parties concerned.

Its just a hope I suppose. I know my girls miss their dad. The oldest (22) said so only the other day and it made me sad especially as she graduates next week and he wont be there to see her.

Divorce your spouse but not your children.

Of course we will agree that children need both parents. It is very sad indeed that a parent chooses to remove themselves from a child''s life - I have a very good friend who expreienced this as a child, and is now a grandparent herself. It affected her whole life, but, at some point when she was grown up, she met with and made peace with her absent parent.

Now what I am asking is what outcome you expect from forcing your ex to look after your children. You could force him to be physically present, but you cannot force him to love, care for, show affection, or engage with his children. Do you think that this would be a beneficial experience for them? Frankly, I don''t - the motivation for reconnecting with them needs to come from him. That''s just my opinion, though.

Fiona wrote:

MathisFun wrote:

Just because the government hasnt listen to NRP concerns re contact at the moment. Doesn''t mean that they wont in the future.

Many changes have started with people debating what should happen.

Family law reform needs to be based on evidence from scientific research and evaluation rather than the Government listening to anecdotal evidence from people on one particular part of the spectrum. Otherwise all that happens with "debate" is that those with the loudest voice win and that isn''t justice.

Well Fiona if that''s the way it really is, we might as well all just pack our bags and go home. and wikivorce can shut down this part of the website.Debate is not just victory for ''those with the loudest voice'',it is discussion over the way forward. Who knows, an MP(or even the PM himself) might just read this thread and see the light!

Fiona wrote:

Family law reform needs to be based on evidence from scientific research and evaluation rather than the Government listening to anecdotal evidence from people on one particular part of the spectrum. Otherwise all that happens with "debate" is that those with the loudest voice win and that isn''t justice.

Fiona - I have great respect for your contribution to this forum, but do I think you are on a sticky wicket here.

Social legislation is rarely based on "scientific" research, which itself is inherently subjective, biased, and open to debate (it is not strictly scientific at all, in an analytical sense). For example, the 1918 Representation of the people Act did not begin to enfranchise women because of scientific research which demonstrated that women were able to vote as well as men. It was, as most most legislation is, a response to a shifting moral, ethical, and social framework. That which was acceptable had become unacceptable.

I mentioned the stolen generation in another post recently - again a good example of something which was done, legally, in "children''s best interests", but which is later seen as barbaric. Again, science is not a factor - it reflects the common morality of society at that point in time.

Money is another major factor in legislation. We saw in the Norgrove report that a key argument against introducing the assumption of shared parenting is that it will lead to more litigation, which will clog up the courts, which is bad for children. Note that the interests of the child is presented as a motivation, but it is a false reason - the real reason is money: if the court system was funded properly then we could have expedient judgements, shared parenting, and better outcomes.

Dismissing anecdotal evidence is also dangerous: if a million people anecdotally report bad experiences with the family courts, then this is evidence that something is not right. Is that not why government engages with public consulation?

The fact is that the the interpretation of the 1989 Children Act, as it has developed through the family law system, does not match the social, economic, or moral structure of the society we now live in. It is ripe for change, and it will change certainly. The longer that takes, the more people will suffer.

Drdaddy - I strongly believe that my ex does love our children , but he has a problem with me, in that basically he hates me for divorcing him. Throughout our marriage at various times when I wanted to end the marriage due to his cheating, he said he would be unable to see the children if I divorced him as they would remind him of me!

So, in my case at least, parenting classes would perhaps help him see that his relationship could be and should be separate to me

I have a friend who met her first husband shortly after he and his first wife divorced. There were 2 small daughters involved aged 1 and 3 and he hated his first wife so much he had decided he wanted no contact with the daughters because it meant contact with the woman he hated. My friend helped forge a relationship between the girls and their dad and next week he gives away his oldest daughter who is now 28!

Love your children more than you hate your ex is such a great saying!