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more questions sorry!!!!

  • sleepybird
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27 Sep 12 #358279 by sleepybird
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If at an enforcement hearing the judge decides that the mother has breached the contact order in place but has also decided that CAFCASS should do a report for the childs welfare, then will he still enforce the order on the ex or will that be done after the cafcass investigation?

Just a bit confused by all of this as someone mentioned that if it is decided that there should be cafcass involvement then the court will make an interim order which I would assume isnt enforced.

Also, is there a warning notice also attached to an interim contact order?

hope that makes sense.

  • .Charles
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15 Oct 12 #361103 by .Charles
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I would expect the judge to make Directions that the current order be adhered to by the mother. As the hearing was for enforcement I would not be surprised if a penal notice was attached to the contact order to compel the mother to comply with the interim contact order.

Recently I have seen a case where the mother failed to comply with a contact order and the court eventually listed the matter for a finding of fact hearing. The court found that the mother had failed to comply and made a work order (community service) which was suspended for 12 months. If she fails to comply the court can activate the order.

This is fairly extreme and does not occur within one hearing - it normally takes several not least due to excuses such as the child was sick, the child did not want to go, I forgot what time the contact was, the bus broke down, I was on holiday, the pavement turned to lava etc.

Charles

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15 Oct 12 #361160 by sleepybird
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Hello and thanks for youe reply.

The hearing was a few weeks ago now and the judge didnt enforce the order but adjourned it stating that my partner and his ex are to work together and take small steps to get contact back on track and son to have councilling to find out what the problem is.

This has given the ex the green light to dicatate contact and son has become more withdrawn and now wont even leave the house with my partner.

The ex is adament that she will only let son go anywhere with my partner is son agrees to it and says he wants to and she says she doesnt know what will happen in the future but this is the small steps that need to be taken.

Its an awful situation for all especially the poor chiild who now hides when hes asked what he would like to do about contact as the mother insists he is asked and consulted about every decision (hes 5) we are back in court in november but to be honest we are wondering how this will ever get sorted as he hasnt stayed with us for 9 weeks 13 by the next court hearing,

  • Emma8485
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15 Oct 12 #361180 by Emma8485
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Hi Sleepybird, I have followed some of your story and feel for your partner. To be honest I would really worry about the pressure that is being placed upon this young child. When faced with Mum saying "do you want to go what do you want to do" he may be saying what mum wants him to say, he may be saying what he really feels - who knows, but the pressure of this and the potential long term effects on him are not to be underestimated.

Standing him there at this young age and asking him to "choose" if he goes with daddy? This must surely be awful for him - and what lesson does it teach for the future? That he only has to do the things he wants to do?

I have to wonder - if he said "mummy I want to go and live with daddy" would she immediately call him and say come and collect our son as this is what he wants?

Somehow I think not.

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15 Oct 12 #361183 by sleepybird
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Hi emma

Good comment.

Not sure if you''re the same emma who I used to chat to last year regarding our difficulties with contact. Ex turning up at 1am on boxing day demanding to take her son and we had to call the police?? ring any bells?

Maybe got the wrong emma lol

I know what you mean, I am sure that he is being brain washed.

She has said before that she will only let him stay with us even an hour over and above the contact order if he calls and asks her himself and on the one occasion that he has, she said no. shes unbelieveable!!

Well this is where we are at now and all we can do is keep on fighting for proper contact and to get son out of this awful situation he has been put in.

xx

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16 Oct 12 #361191 by khan72
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Tell your partner this..

The judge may need to be reminded of Sir Thomas Bingham''s quote in [1994] 1 FLR 729 at 736.

neither parent should be encouraged or to think that the more intransigent, the more unreasonable, the more obdurate and the more unco-operative they are the more likely they are to get their own way.


I also remember reading somewhere about a case where the judge refused to allow a child to make up their own mind about contact saying "it is too great a burden to place on a child." - Some of these judges are just part-timers. They might not be all that sharp.

At my first Directions hearing I had a part-time judge who got severely beaten down by my barrister. I have never seen a judge want to leave a court room so fast.

Have a set number of quotes from cases ready to hand :)Beat the judge down with case law.

You might want to read Judge Coleridges Keynote speech 2010. Also make sure your partner tells the judge that delays are not in the best intrests of the child and that the court must "grasp the nettle rather than put off the evil day". Basically telling the judge to use some good case management practise rather than pussy-foot around. :)

Also try quoting a bit of Bracewell from V vs V [2004] www.fnf.org.uk/downloads/VvV.pdf. It has some nice quotes in there ;)

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16 Oct 12 #361269 by Emma8485
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Yes same Emma! Just been quiet over the summer off enjoying time with the kids!

:)

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