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Outcome from today''s hearing!!!

  • disneybunny
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04 Oct 12 #359283 by disneybunny
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Sleepy I would not send your chid no matter what the court says her well being is more important.

  • sleepybird
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04 Oct 12 #359290 by sleepybird
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Somuch2know2 - we have been having ocermights for nearly a year now the last time being a 5 night holiday, this has now stopped and were going backwards with small steps again. All of this has stemmed from the mothers insecurities about son having contact with his father and a judge has yesterday basically backed her up so she will now carry on stopping contact as and when she pleases, this cannot be good for son and my partners stressing that son needs regular continual
Contact has fallen on the judges deaf ears it seems.

My partner is seeing a solicitor tomorrow to discuss what he can do as by the next hearing my partner won''t have had court ordered contact for 13 weeks, even if son is happy to come sng stay as per the court order, mum has said she will not allow it, how is that good for son.

We have gone from her letting son make decisions about contact and if he says he doesn''t want to then she won''t make him to if son is happy with contact then she won''t let him because the judge said ''small steps''

It''s just all a big mess to be honest and stuck right in the middle are my daughter and his son. It makes me soooo angry!!!!

Disneybunny - I agree with you so have now decided that on this 1 occasion that I will go with my partner and daughter to collect son and if at any point there is any crying or carrying on, I''m getting in the car and leaving with my daughter. I don''t have these issues with my daughter seeing her dad, we get on well and work it all out between us so I will not let that nutter upset my child too!!!

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04 Oct 12 #359294 by somuch2know2
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Bloody hell didnt realise that he had already been having overnights? I can understand your frustation and for the life of me cant understand why the judge would have ruled that way. Seems very much at odds with what is in the child''s interests.

Is there another court date set?

  • sleepybird
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04 Oct 12 #359300 by sleepybird
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Yes there is, mid November. My partner is seeing a solicitor tomorrow which will cost a fortune but we need some advise as we feel that the hearing wasn''t at all fair and most definitely not in sons best interests. He also hasn''t made Any variation to the order in place currently and so I assume that if the son is happy to come for contact on Saturday and the ex doesn''t let him that she is breaking the ordet yet again.

He hasn''t had court ordered overnight contact for 7 weeks now and this is the outcome of the first enforecment hearing which wad yesterday.

The judge actually used the phrase in court ''slowly slowly catches the monkey'' we are talking about a child here and thats the best he could come up with.

My partner is beside himself having presented a huge amount of evidence that points to the child feeling torn and upsetting his mum if he has contact with his dad. My partner also had in writing from the ex that she thinks son is quite capable of making the contact decisions ( he turned 5 yesterday) yet the judge did nothing!!!

  • khan72
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04 Oct 12 #359340 by khan72
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Sleepybird,

Perhaps you might want to print out the following next time you are at court. Its in my court pack. I have not had to use it yet.

www.judiciary.gov.uk/media/judgments/201...en-judgment-24072012

Next time the Judge is too soft. You say.

"Your Honour/Madam,
Would the court consider the opinion of Lord Justice MacFarlane, Re W (Children) with citation EWCA Civ 999. In a case where the court of appeal said at [75] and[76]...


then you quote the quote

75. In all aspects of life, whilst some duties and responsibilities may be a pleasure to discharge, others may well be unwelcome and a burden. Whilst parenting in many respects brings joy, even in families where life is comparatively harmonious, the responsibility of being a parent can be tough. Where parents separate the burden for each and every member of the family group can be, and probably will be, heavy. It is not easy, indeed it is tough, to be a single parent with the care of a child. Equally, it is tough to be the parent of a child for whom you no longer have the day to day care and with whom you no longer enjoy the ordinary stuff of everyday life because you only spend limited time with your child. Where all contact between a parent and a child is prevented, the burden on that parent will be of the highest order. Equally, for the parent who has the primary care of a child, to send that child off to spend time with the other parent may, in some cases, be itself a significant burden; it may, to use modern parlance, be “a very big ask”. Where, however, it is plainly in the best interests of a child to spend time with the other parent then, tough or not, part of the responsibility of the parent with care must be the duty and responsibility to deliver what the child needs, hard though that may be.
76. Where parental responsibility is shared by a child’s parents, the statute is plain (CA 1989, s 3) that each of those parents, and both of them, share ‘duties’ and ‘responsibilities’ in relation to the child, as well as ‘rights … powers … and authority’. Where all are agreed, as in the present case, that it is in the best interests of a child to have a meaningful relationship with both parents, the courts are entitled to look to each parent to use their best endeavours to deliver what their child needs, hard or burdensome or downright tough that may be. The statute places the primary responsibility for delivering a good outcome for a child upon each of his or her parents, rather than upon the courts or some other agency.


Then you remind the Judge you have parental responsibility and suggest the conact should be as... [make your suggestion here]

Hopefully that would work ;)

Basically telling the Judge to take your opinion into account here....If the Judge still doesn''t budge then ask
"Your Honour can you state any reasons why I cannot appeal against your decision to you right now based upon the case law I have stated."
If he still wont budge, then just appeal. He is being to conservative and its not in the best intrests of the child.
Never be affraid to appeal or object. Happens all the time.

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04 Oct 12 #359354 by sleepybird
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Thanks for that Khan.

To be honest, My partner said the judge wouldnt even give him the oppurtunity to say all of that in court. He asked the questions and my partner and ex answered and that was the way it went.

My partner is seeing a solicitor tomorrow for some advice as he feels this situation has now become too difficult and worse since the hearing yesterday and by the looks of things he wont be having court ordered contact for quite some time as ex now feels she can dictate on contact.

He has told the solicitor over the phone what the judge suggested and how the hearing was left and the solicitor was quite shocked.

My partner told me today that the judge actually told him that he needs to look at the bigger picture. What??? the bigger picture where my partner had to take ex to court as she refused to agree to reasonable contact with his son and in that time has behaved in such a way that we had to call the police before with her turning up demanding her son back and now my partner has had to take her back to court as the court order is being breached on a regular basis?????

I am sure that my partner can see the bigger picture very well but it seems the judge cant!!!!!

  • u6c00
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04 Oct 12 #359358 by u6c00
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You have a lot of information flying at you from both ends of the spectrum. Much of it is very useful. I would like to offer something in the middle.

I don''t know the history of your relationship but were you with your partner during the initial contact battle? It would certainly have been a long drawn out process and I think that you should be looking at this enforcement issue in the same way, it''s going to take a long time and a lot of financial, emotional and physical effort.

What is the time estimate of the next hearing?

I think that the judge''s ruling is ridiculous. Subjecting another child to what is (I think you said) a 3 hour round trip in the car just to facilitate contact that ought to be happening anyway is unreasonable and not in your child''s best interests.

That said, judges will order almost anything that can be agreed rather than have people fight it out.

It sounds to me like the judge gave the mother the benefit of the doubt which on the face of what you have posted here seems unreasonable.

I have posted before that I see one of two causes: maliciousness from the mother, or overly emotional behaviour from the mother. Both of these would have the same effect on the child. By referring the child to counselling you will get further towards an answer and perhaps you will get closer to re-establishing meaningful contact.

I think that someone may have already said that you need to ''play the long game'' on this. Next time you will have expert evidence on your side.

I''m sorry that this hearing has caused such a setback. I will keep my fingers crossed for you and hope that you will keep us updated.

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