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Cost of running the court

  • soulruler
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25 Jul 12 #345424 by soulruler
Topic started by soulruler
Maybe this is a question for charles but I would be interested to know if anyone knows how much it costs per hour to run a district court including support staff, heating, Judges wages etc, and how much it costs per hour to run court in High Court or the RCJ.

I am just trying to work out just how much my "divorce" is costing the UK Tax payer at present as my ex has dragged me through just about every court in the UK and I think I am headed possibly to the Supreme Court - small money divorce, me self repping and him on a no win no fee basis with 6 legal teams (no I am not joking).

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26 Jul 12 #345442 by Forseti
Reply from Forseti
Good question. One of the things which emerged from the Family Justice Review was how little anyone knows about what the system costs, or how proposed reforms will impact on costs. The courts service costs about £220 million of which about half is recovered from users of the system. Total cost of the family justice system is about £1.6 billion.

Annex D of the Final Report estimates some of the costs while Annex E lists the data gaps, including what individual case types cost.

Overall, the system knows very little about itself, and there are much more serious data gaps, such as the long-term effects on children of family court decisions.

As for your ex, perhaps he should consider Jarndyce v Jarndyce.

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26 Jul 12 #345451 by dukey
Reply from dukey
Just for those interested a district judge in 2007 earned £98,000 per year, high court judges almost twice that.

Group 1:

Lord Chief Justice

Salary wef 1 November 2006: £225,000
Salary wef 1 April 2007 £228,375
Salary wef 1 November 2007: £230,400

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Group 1.1:

Master of the Rolls
Lord Chief Justice of Northern Ireland
Lord President of the Court of Session
Senior Lord of Appeal in Ordinary

Salary wef 1 November 2006: £200,800
Salary wef 1 April 2007 £203,812
Salary wef 1 November 2007: £205,700

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Group 2:

Lords of Appeal in Ordinary
Lord Justice Clerk
President of the Family Division
President of the Queen''s Bench Division
The Chancellor of the High Court

Salary wef 1 November 2006: £194,000
Salary wef 1 April 2007 £196,910
Salary wef 1 November 2007: £198,700

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Group 3:

Inner House Judges of the Court of Session
Lords Justices of Appeal
Lords Justices of Appeal (Northern Ireland)

Salary wef 1 November 2006: £184,400
Salary wef 1 April 2007 £187,166
Salary wef 1 November 2007: £188,900

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Group 4:

High Court Judges
Outer House Judges of the Court of Session
Puisne Judges (Northern Ireland)
Vice-Chancellor of the County Palatine of Lancaster

Salary wef 1 November 2006: £162,000
Salary wef 1 April 2007 £164,430
Salary wef 1 November 2007: £165,900

Chief Asylum Support Adjudicator

Salary wef 1 April 2007: £139,583
Salary wef 1 November: £140,875

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Group 5:

Chairman, Criminal Injuries Compensation Appeal Panel [Note 1]
Chairman, Scottish Land Court
Chief Social Security Commissioners (England, Wales; Scotland and Northern Ireland)
Circuit Judges at the Central Criminal Court in London (Old Bailey Judges)
Deputy President, Asylum & Immigration Tribunal
Judge Advocate General
Judges of the Technology and Construction Court
Permanent Circuit Judge, Employment Appeals Tribunal
President, Appeal Tribunals (England, Wales and Scotland)
President, Care Standards Tribunal
President, Employment Tribunals (England and Wales)
President, Employment Tribunals (Scotland)
President, Claims Management Services Tribunal
President, Financial Services and Markets Tribunal (FINSMAT) (Note 2)
President, VAT and Duties Tribunals
Presiding Special Commissioner of Income Tax
President, Lands Tribunals (England and Wales)
President, Lands Tribunal (Scotland)
Recorder of Belfast (Note 3)
Recorder of Liverpool
Recorder of Manchester
Senior Circuit Judges
Senior District Judge (Chief Magistrate)
Sheriffs Principal
Specialist Circuit Judges (Note 4)

Salary wef 1 November 2006: £129,900
Salary wef 1 April 2007 £131,849
Salary wef 1 November 2007: £133,100

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Group 6.1:

Chief Registrar and Senior and Chief Masters
Circuit Judges
County Court Judges (Northern Ireland)
Judge Advocate of the Fleet
Master of the Court of Protection
President, Appeal Tribunals (Northern Ireland)
President, Industrial Tribunals and Fair Employment Tribunal (Northern Ireland)
President, Lands Tribunals (Northern Ireland)
Regional Chairmen, Appeal Tribunals
Regional Chairmen Employment Tribunals (England and Wales; and Scotland)
Registrar of Criminal Appeals
Senior District Judge, Principal Registry of the Family Division
Senior Cost Judge
Senior Immigration Judges
Social Security Commissioners (England, Wales; Scotland and Northern Ireland)
Vice-President, Employment Tribunal (Scotland)

Salary wef 1 November 2006: £120,300
Salary wef 1 April 2007 £122,105
Salary wef 1 November 2007: £123,200

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Group 6.2:

Adjudicator, HM Land Registry
Chairmen, VAT and Duties Tribunals
Deputy Senior District Judge (Magistrates'' Courts)
Members, Claims Management Service Tribunal
Members, Lands Tribunals (England and Wales; Scotland and Northern Ireland)
Regional Chairmen, Mental Health Review Tribunals, England
Special Commissioners of Income Tax
Vice-Judge Advocate General
Vice-Presidents, Industrial Tribunals and Fair Employment Tribunal (Northern Ireland)
Vice-Presidents, VAT and Duties Tribunals (England and Wales; and Scotland)

Salary wef 1 November 2006: £114,400
Salary wef 1 April 2007 £116,116
Salary wef 1 November 2007: £116,700

Designated Immigration Judges (Note 5)
President, Pensions Appeal Tribunal (Notes 5 and 6)

Salary wef 1 November 2006: £104,220
Salary wef 1 April 2007 £105,784
Salary wef 1 November 2007: £106,812

Deputy Chief Asylum Support Adjudicator (Note 5)
Presiding Resident Magistrate (Northern Ireland)

Salary wef 1 April 2007: £105,784
Salary wef 1 November 2007: £106,812

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Group 7: (Note 5)

Assistant Judge Advocates General
(District) Chairmen, Appeal Tribunals
Chairmen, Employment Tribunals (England and Wales; and Scotland)
Chairmen, Industrial Tribunals and Fair Employment Tribunal (Northern Ireland)
Coroner (Northern Ireland)
Costs Judges
Deputy President Pensions Appeal Tribunal
District Judges
District Judges of the Principal Registry of the Family Division
District Judges (Magistrates'' Courts)
District Judges (Northern Ireland)
Immigration Judges
Masters and Registrars of the Supreme Court
Masters of the Supreme Court (Northern Ireland)
Members, Gambling Appeals Tribunal
Resident Magistrates, Northern Ireland
Chief Medical Member, Appeals Tribunal

Salary wef 1 November 2006: £96,500
Salary wef 1 April 2007 £97,948
Salary wef 1 November 2007: £98,900

Read more: wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_do_judges_ge...the_UK#ixzz21kAyIfzR

  • soulruler
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26 Jul 12 #345453 by soulruler
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thanks Forseti I will look at that precedent, I am pretty sure that my case is going to set new precedents based on Imerman v Tchenquiz (no decision should be made in family proceedings that would result in another case whether that is Tort, Equity or Law).

Strangely I had an extrajudicial judgement at a final hearing in Ancillary Relief which I got a legal team to appeal - I know now that I didn''t need to appeal as if it is extrajudical it is nul and void and doesn''t need to be appealed you just write in to court stating why and to the other side and ask for the order to be amended.

Anyway, I appealled he didn''t and neither did he go for enforcement of the judgement - if he had believed it out of court powers he should also have written in or appealed as in his open offer he had double accounted and was asking for more than the judge awarded.

However, he went eventually for a section 37 injunction just two weeks before my appeal date ex parte. You can only go for section 37 on notice (not without - ex parte) and you have to do it on a Form A to a district judge or shortly after Petition on summons (which is on a D11 served to all parties including the court at the same time).

In fact he should have gone for a freezing injunction or some sort of third party debt order after the final hearing if he believed he had a case.

The judge wrote the order he asked for as a counter order (counter fraud) and discharged it himself just 6 days later - injunctions are incredibly draconian and enforcement without delay is imperative.

I was misrepresented at the time by a legal team who told me the injunction was not important - it most definitely was very important as I had won my appeal because of their gross negligence, incompetence and victimisation and harrassment of me right there and then in appeal court.

The saga has gone on and on, he got another injunction after that written by the high court judge assigned to my appeal and which he got clearance to sit in the RCJ (he is a High Court Judge in Family Division sitting in the PRFD in London and was a specialist in child proceedings and a QC before his appointment as a Crown Servant - Judge).

When my ex refused over and over to transfer the FMH to me the High Court judge wrote and order that it must be transferred and gave authority to a District Judge and my ex has still not complied.

When he couldn''t get the injunction "debt" enforced - it was already discharged by the Circuit Judge in Appeal Court, he then attempted to reclaim the house by way of Statutory Demand and got an order that a Bankruptcy Petition be issued including more costs but then failed to issue the bankruptcy petition to make me homeless.

He then tried again in another court to get a Final Charging order against the house to make me homeless, transferring the debt from the unissued bankruptcy petition to the Final Charge and then failed to proceed after three hearings (none of which he attended) after the final charge through the next three third party debt orders which follow final charges which would also have made me and the children homeless against a house which is mine in anycase.

He then decided (well his increasingly large group of "legal" teams decided) to go to High Court and get writs of possession for the monies he tried to get by way of injunction transferring the increasing debt (accuing at 8% interest flat per day) and then failed to enforce that and made it a combined claim into the RCJ Queens Bench.

He then conceeded to half the debt (well his legal teams did as he hasn''t been in court now for over a year) and then started again with insolvency proceedings against me personally (only companies are made insolvent people are made bankrupt) and that was about 8 months ago and he still hasn''t complied with that order.

The Master involved in Queens Bench asked me to crystalise the debt (state was it was on the order he had sought) which included a claim back to the final hearing with interest and costs ( I had paid the costs I was ordered to pay at the final hearing during appeal) and included the increasing cost of the order and costs of the unissued bankruptcy petition not served against me, costs of a third party debt order against our own son for £300,000 (which again he did not attend), costs for the final charging orders which in all amounted to over £1 million (so this now involves the attourney general - taxonomy of fraud - it also involves an international jurisdiction).

So to say he is negligent is an understatement of the year - I am now a victim of not only domestic abuse but also legal abuse.

Anyway, some of the top Justices in the UK have been assigned to this case and I have been given the grand Tour.

My stance regarding Judges has changed enormously during this and really I do not know how they get up every day and do their job. Solicitors and Barristers and licenced insolvency practitioners and High Court Enforcement Officers are under the same obligations as UK judiciary - which is by way of oath to make sure they support the courts and the general public to make sure that they come to a decision that is Just in Law and that out of power Judgements and precedents (extrajudicial for orders per incuriam for precedents) are not made and then quoted for ever more.


Well it doesn''t surpise me that there is little known about costs. However, bit of a side issue but when my eldest (who has Downs) was 3 he got Luekeamia and underwent 2 years of chemotherapy. It was a long time ago now - 17 years - but the cost for his treatment if it was standard was £84,000. His treatment was not standard as he kept getting infections and was hospitalised far more than the protocol for treatment that he was on.

I do remember at the time totting up the costs as they told us the daily bed rate and I think my sons costs for treatment exceeded £120,000.

It seems to me that our society is failing itself - we can not carry on like we are doing.

Family Lawyers need to know a huge amount about the law. In fact if I had been properly advised after the final hearing then I think I could have gone into Chancery to make a claim against my ex husband.

As it is he has now made so many applications and he and his legal teams are the ones who have bought this all the way through family, chancery, commercial and now into Queens Bench. All I have done is attempt to get him to rescind and stop but now I am attempting to make one claim which I have been advised by a Human Rights Judge must be in Open Court in Queens Bench.

The Master who is assigned to my case is a Supreme Court Judge by way of Jurisdiction although he sits with other Masters in RCJ Queens Bench.

Law is a frightening thing, The Legal Services Act of 2007 is something that I am attempting to bring to the notice of the general public and most importantly to the notice of the legal profession.

Well we will see but I have lost my rights to privacy and private life having tried to get this into closed court because I didn''t want to be known publically and also because I do believe it is a scandel.

Interestingly recently there was a case where a couple were divorcing and the husband was involved in business with his father. He disclosed all their business affairs and the press wanted to report but the Judge residing stated that the father believed that if his business was made public that it would prejudice his business and put his life at risk.

I have been stating that various legals are putting my life at risk and my mothers life a risk for a number of years but the only response I have had from my ex-s legals is that the on contention in the entire proceedings has come from me including letters threatening to kill both of their clients (conflict of interest as both my husband and my ex best friend are clients of that legal team).

The letters they then produced were not death threats from me but love letters - very passionate and graphic stating what I wanted to do to my husband physicaly:blush: and my ex husband put a letter to court stating that he didn''t know why these personal issues were being bought up at this time!!!

Well, I now have to live with the fact that my passionate "50 shades of Gray" letters have been passed around half of the UK Judiciary.

NO wonder then that when I keep getting dragged to court the judges seem to be enjoying themselves to much. Beats watching Eastenders - its a great script.

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26 Jul 12 #345454 by dukey
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You can only go for section 37 on notice (not without - ex parte) and you have to do it on a Form A to a district judge or shortly after Petition on summons (which is on a D11 served to all parties including the court at the same time).

You sure? i don`t know of any avoidance of dissipation orders applied for on notice, they are always ex parte.

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26 Jul 12 #345461 by soulruler
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Incidentally, on the subject of death threats in the letters submitted to court by my ex and ex best mate I did reveal that at the time he left he was threatening me with knifes and also gaslighting me.

I found out at the point I decided to go for a divorce that my ex and ex best mate tried to have me sectioned behind my back (it was disclosed to me by a mutual friend who witnessed them calling out of hours doctors telling the doctors that I was insane).

For two years I was unable to access my own medical record as it was a third party disclosure and usually third parties are protected in law as it can be a risk to their life if an insane person knows that they attempted to have them sectioned.

I wrote and asked my ex via his legal team for permission to access my own record and he denied me that right and in the end as social services got involved social services managed to access my record to confirm that it was him who phoned. They agreed to this as I had undergone two full phsycological assessments by my local mental health team who concluded that I was in recovery from significant domestic violence and abuse.

It is definately an interesting case and the master assigned in Queens Bench is an expert both in negligence and also in medicine so he knows full well having seen all the evidence that I am not insane or a danger to the general public.

There is also no evidence that my ex is mentally insane although he is legally insane quite obviously and legally mischeivous - both of which are serious legal offences.

Legal insanity is defined by frivolous litigation the attempts by a person to wear another party down by launching litigation which only purpose is to wear down their opponent and they have no intention of following through with.

To date he has failed to follow through with any of the litigation which he has started or allowed himself.

He has also worn down the courts not only with false allegations against various competent judges but also directly by making applications for extended civil restraint orders against me (er I am not the one taking out the litigation) and hideously on the latest order (it states order on top of the form) he directly usurped the jurisdiction of the Justice in Family ticking that he was the court and threatening the Judge that if she didn''t make the order that she would be in contempt of court (he also mispelt her name to make her sound like a baboon - clue).

During the past 4 years I have been threatened inside court and out, my ex and his new wife (they have also fallen into the remarriage trap) live opposite me. His cronnies have threatened me with guns, I have been threatened with hardcore punishment by his legals in the court waiting rooms, threatened with statutory demands, threatened by way of freemasons handshakes again by legal teams.

I have had false allegations made against me which have gone to court regarding death threats, that I have reported all my solicitors to the authorities - the only solicitors I have reported are his solicitors who forced me into a contract after appeal by offering me false legal advice designed to wear me down (a legal team in opposition should just state that you should seek independent legal advise not offer you advice whether it is right or wrong).

My friends have been warned off me, when my ex got married his cronnies approached a friend of mine in the pub and cornered him telling him that he was "to take soulruler out of the county as they didn''t want any trouble" - that was funny what was I supposed to do turn up at the village hall after their ceremony saying that I objected to them getting married - sounds like a mission impossible to me.

In my village I am know known as a ***** and a trouble maker. He has spread rumours which keep getting back to me that I am frigid, cut him out of three houses we bought together and that I threw him out of the house. Well I don''t think any of that is true well I know it isn''t but I do think in retrospect I should have thrown him out of the house a very long time ago.

I look back on my marriage and cannot believe I was so stupid and so naive for so long. Why sensitive people believe that violent people are only violent because they are not doing enough I will never know but I am attempting now not to fall into the same traps and misconceptions again.

Weird old life ain''t it.

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26 Jul 12 #345467 by soulruler
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well the reason why I believe it should be on notice is that I read a paper which I found on the net by 4 Papers Buildings (it now seems to have gone) which stated that was the proceedure.

It said you had to apply on Form A to a district Judge or shortly after Petition by way of summons to a judge of the family division.

Maybe that was wrong (the paper has now been withdrawn after I wrote to them thanking them for their excellent paper). However, what is clear is that family proceedings are supposed to be collaborative so in that sense it makes sense what I read. The other option I suppose would be to go for a freezing injunction (these are obtained if you look at the papers from a Justice in either Chancey, Commercial or Queens Bench). They are more onerous as the proceedure is very tight, the time lines very tight - as once you get one you have to get it enforced in just a few days otherwize they are discharged - that would be a quick end to financial settlement would it not?)

I got my Decree Absolute in Feb 2009 so a section 37 of the marital causes act can not be sought in any circumstance as we were not married when he sought it.

In addition at the point he crept ex parte stating that I was disippating marital assets (no they weren''t) he applied for a blanket injunction way in excess of the judgement "debt" at the final hearing using all my honest disclosure and that of my mothers to show that in any case I had not disipated any assets without his knoweldge (most of the monies taken from the fund in my name - on contact to repay the bank - was given to him and his legal team as his request not mine) and the other assets were assets which belonged to my mum and of which I was trustee (shares in a limited company which I invested in before our marriage).

He claimed that they were an inheritance and I was using them. The evidence was they were a potential inheritance - Mum is still alive - and that none of the funds at all had been used in the past 3 years - partly actually as my legal team told me Mum couldn''t access her own pension othersize she might look dishonest - work that one out.

You cannot in any case get a section 37 even at the ligitimate point on bonuses not received or inheritances not yet paid out.

What a mess.

I believe that Maravas and freezing injunctions have to be sought ex parte as they usually involve the devious and once they have been obtained they have to be served immediately on the instituion involved (bank or other institution) BEFORE they are served on the defendent - in this case my ex went ex parte with my full disclosure and then FAILED to serve on the account holders before he served it on me. In fact he didn''t serve it on me as his legal team sent it by fax to my legal team and then my legal team sent it by e-mail (I went nuts when I received it as it threatened me with prison).

They then let it lapse failed to see that it was issued in the wrong jurisdiction just from the point of view that the accounts he was attacking were in another country so in order to get the right jurisdiciton he needed to apply however he had done it to a High Court Judge (at the very least) sitting in the Jurisdiction of the RCJ.

We then waited 5 months without a further judgement from the Judge until I was forced to dismiss the legal team who misrepresented me in appeal court. My ex-s legal team were pressing me to pay them £60,000 for their legal fees from the funds they sought an injunction on (so that was an attempt to breach an injunction which they sought themselves and which they still believed was effective despite the fact that it had been discharged by the "circuit" judge 6 days after issue.

When I confirmed to the court that I was self reprenting again due to misrepresentations everywhere the judge assigned listed the case saying that we were in the PRFD in two days time (I only got wind as ex-s legal team threatened me with the information - I didn''t even know at the time what the PRFD was - it is the Principal Registry of the Family Division in Holborn London).

I arranged child care got down there on short notice only to find on the the day we were in St Dunstans House which I found out when obtaining a transcript of that "costs" hearing was an annex of the RCJ - so the judge was then a High Court Judge and I believe he must have got clearance from the Judiciary to sit in the RCJ as normally sits either in PRFD or acts as a circuit judge on his circuit.

There is a lot more to this than that including where I am now which is Queens Bench and attempting to get equitable damages in all divisions of UK courts and in all three disiplines which are Tort, Equity and Law.

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