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Form E, Questionaires, answers AND LIES!!!!!!!!

  • Louise11
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25 Nov 07 #7634 by Louise11
Topic started by Louise11
Hi There

I have read so many posts in the last few days on questionnaires, form Es, and lies.
So I thought I would write this post to clarify something..

When you receive Form E and you fill it out and simultaneously exchange them, when you receive the other parties Form E, most of you will be shocked to learn that most of what the other party says will probably be lies.
So the next stage will be to rant and rave, feel depressed and sometimes sick because you feel hurt, shocked and scared that you are about to be shafted.
So when you have had a chance to calm down, your next step will be to write a questionaire based on the information you have read in Form E.
You then go to a court hearing, could be a directions hearing, could be the FDR, where the judge will read through the questions and will tell you what questions you have to answer or what questions they have to answer. He/she will ask the relevance of your question and you have to be ready with an answer.

Example…………….My husbands former wife wrote on her form E that she had a joint debt with her partner of 20k, she said her responsibility was half that debt. My husband asked in a question, which bank account was her “half” being paid from. As the bank account she had declared did not show any of the monthly payments, he also asked for the loan documentation she was declaring! Because he wanted to prove a financial association between her and her partner. The Judge asked her the question, where are the payments coming from? She replied “ out of her partners bank account, its his loan? So the Judge said “ You cant say one minute you are responsible for half the loan, then say its your partners? Is it your debt or is it his debt? She replied its his debt! So The Judge said well you cant have that as a debt on your form E! My husband said can I have the loan details? The Judge said yes.
Another question was her outgoings showed she paid more than she earned, so my husband asked the question how can you pay more out than you have coming in. The Judge allowed the question. Anyway cut a long story short, all the questions my husband asked the Judge ruled she was to answer them all.

So a couple of weeks go by and we get the answers to the questions!

One question as I say above was.

1) How can you spend more than you have per month on utility bills, yet you declare your earnings to be a lot less and you are not in any debt and have a healthy bank balance?

Her Reply?…………..Our client budgets accordingly! (Did my husband feel frustrated?????? OMG of course he did, he wrote back and told them they havent answered, they reply yes we have! Who made any money out of that? The solicitor did of course in a letter that just stated yes we have!)

2) You say you have only one bank account yet your declared bank account clearly shows you are paying money into another account, please explain why you have not declared that bank account?

Her Reply?…………Our client “forgot” to mention this bank account as she opened it for her brother, so therefore she didn’t feel the need to declare it!

All these questions and answers are actually totally irrelevant until the FH and you put the other person on the stand and cross examine them.

You get worked up about the blatant lies, mis-information and lack of respect in the answers you will receive. It causes total frustration and you can feel like hitting a brick wall, you want to rant and rave and ring them to say you lying s**t!!!!!!

But honest its not worth it, all you need to do is collect your evidence to counteract these lies, you can ask a judge at another hearing to go through the questions and say they haven’t answered them in full, and could he order them too, but really none of it is worth it. No one reads these questions, no one is interested in these questions and answers. No one is interested in who has told lies and who hasn’t.
Until that is the FH, then you can have your say.
If you settled at any time before that hearing , these lies will never become knowledge to anyone.
At my husbands final hearing, the Judge worked through so much of the information, she was only interested in any assets and how she was going to split them. She then sort of led them to understand from the evidence in front of her, if she had to make an order then it would be along these lines. At no time did she say what it was going to be, but you knew from what she had in front of her how it was roughly going to go. Also at this particular time, no questions were asked of any of the Form E or questionnaire.

She then gave them time to go out of court and thrash around offers, his former wife accepted an offer after half an hour of haggling.

That was it job done. Consent Order and no need at any time to cross examine or bring up the question of any lies. That would of come later in the day had she not accepted an offer.

So my advice to you all is try not to worry, don’t allow any of it to wind you up, be calm and collected and collect any evidence you can to counteract the lies and try to reach a settlement before half your money has gone up the swanny in legal fees.

I hope the above clarifies certain things for people, if anyone has any questions please feel free to ask them of me and I will try and help you.

Kind Ones

  • loobyloo
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26 Nov 07 #7735 by loobyloo
Reply from loobyloo
Hi louise
can you explain something as im either thick or misinformed
I had first appt (after 2 adj) (his fault) the questions where sanctioned and away we went , answers to be in for 26th oct
Mine have gone again, on time but still nothing from him
the fdr is next week im panicing like hell cos i know he stashed money and have the evidence of at least one account being used in brothers name.
he went on hol for 1st hearing thus adj and got off 2nd attempt had not done form e thus adj he got away with that
why has he the upper hand he has the home i have kids i had to give up work he is gp in own pracitice and always on call so making plenty
combined sm and cm at mo 1000 pcm, csa involved and he is ignoring them
Is there a possiblity i will come out of all this with nothing... i am worried sick

  • escapy
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26 Nov 07 #7736 by escapy
Reply from escapy
hello , am in very similar boat, down to soon to be ex husbands job, and his many other income generating activivties. Of little help but to say have resorted to barrister to cut through his crap. Rules do not apply to high flyers, or so they think, am reasonably confident he will have to toe the line like the rest of us and pay the cost. if my ex put as much energy into sorting out the finances as he does into avoiding the rules it would have been done a year ago. seeing barrister on friday sod the cost. escapy

  • Louise11
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26 Nov 07 #7749 by Louise11
Reply from Louise11

There is not a cat in hells chance you will come out of all this with nothing. I suspect he gets away with a certain amount ie not filing ect ect because hes a GP and has work commitments, or this is what he will be saying!
The thing is it wont wash with courts, there are time limits and they have to be kept up with, its just no one takes any notice of them as there doesnt seem to be any penalties to not adhering to them. Until that is a FH and the mention of costs become involved.
You have a chnce at the FDR to voice your concerns and show any evidence you may have and a Judge will look at them, if the answers to the questions you have asked are not forthcoming and he keeps using delaying tactics, then you have to voice this at FDR. You have to make it clear to Judge that by him continally holding things up you and children are suffering!
You are not "thick in any way shape or form, this divorce law, is daft by any bodies standard, and we all think we are somewhat protected by the law, when we actually have to use it at some point in our lives, we realise just how stupid it can be!
Try not to worry (easy said, than done, I know)but it will turn out in the end you know and then you will wonder why you worried so much.

Kind ones

  • scottishlady
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26 Nov 07 #7760 by scottishlady
Reply from scottishlady
Hi Louise...
Firstly... I would like to say how much I appreciate 'reading' your comments and advice... you are a great help to those of us who are going down this horrid divorce route....
I have a question.... what if you don't have physical evidence that your X2B is lying on his Form E???
For example.... my husband has stated through his solicitor recently that he 'has lost approx 20K gambling'.... I KNOW this is a lie... but I can't prove it...
He earns approx 1K a week... ofcourse.. he has living expenses.... but his sol stated that he has just over 1K in his bank account.... now... I feel sure he is merely ''withdrawing and stashing' any surplus funds that he has.... but, again, I have no way to prove this...

Any thoughts would be appreciated

  • Louise11
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26 Nov 07 #7770 by Louise11
Reply from Louise11
Hi Scottishlady

Many thanks for your kind comments.

Right, Firstly, this divorce law is on a "balance of probabilities, its not on "beyond a reasonable doubt! You do not need the same burden of proof in a divorce court as you do in a criminal court. I.E they work on a balance of probabilities rather than the rule, that needs proof which is beyond a reasonable doubt!

So the fact that your husband has suddenly after all this time developed a gambling habit is somewhat a joke! Who does he think he will be kidding? A Judge? they have seen it all before.
Regardless of whether he has "lost" this money or not, half of it belonged to you! He will still owe it to you!

Have you received 12 months bank statements from him yet? When you get these there is a paper trail of money! Did you have a healthy bank balance when he left and took it all with him? Did you have joint bank accounts at the time, he left? If you have the statements it will show where the money went, (he took it!) All these things will go against him and he will not be able to pull the wool over a Judges eyes!(silly man!)
Another thing is...........ok so he says he lost it gambling, well ask the Judge for proof! Why should it be you who proves he didnt? Turn it so he has to prove he did! Its him who says he lost it gambling, well show me the proof! Ask where and to who he lost it, there will always be a trail. Did you lose it to friends? If so could you please name them. (if he does then ask your solicitor to write to them and call them as witnesses! My guess is they wouldnt want to take the witness stand, if they were lying for him!) Did you lose it gambling in a casino? Then please could you show me your membership! Please could you name the dates and times you attended these casinos?
You can always ask the Judge to make an order that the casino gives you the information. They keep records and photograph anyone who enters and every game is monitored and videoed.
All these questions you can ligitimately ask when Form E has been filed. When you get to your first hearing see how the land lies, see what is actually said in there and ask for anything you like, a Judge can say Yes or No.
His Solicitor cant just state he has 1k in the bank, he has to provide the evidence of that statement.
One other word of advice is..........do not accept it from your solicitor if she/he says she/he cant ask for any of the above, you tell her/him what you want her/him to say or ask! Sometimes solicitors will say they cant do that or ask for that, but you are paying their bill you tell them what you want them to do. After all if anything ever goes wrong they always say " I was acting for my client! Like i bet if in court your husband was proven to have more than a grand in the bank his solicitor will say "well thats what he told me your Honour! See they really are untouchable!

Hope thats put your mind at rest somewhat. Just remember always look outside the box, so to speak, there is always a way round the lies they tell! LOL

Kind Ones

And just to add..........so what if he has "lost" it or gambled it? or dropped it down a drain? He owes half of it to you!!!!!!! He still owes half of it to you!
would he still expect his bit out of the property if you "lost " it to me say?
Hey hey Fancy a Game of Poker for FMHs anyone?

  • Specialdad
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26 Nov 07 #7772 by Specialdad
Reply from Specialdad
I can you tell you this much scottish lady.

If your ex has not lost 20k so far in gambling he certainly will lose 20k in legal fees if he does continue to lie and has to defend himself against all the cross examination that Louise has set out above.

One of the interesting observations about Form E is that it states that it is a total disclosure of true assets and liabilities held by each party. So why is it that a party feel they can suddenly start lieing to a court of law??

I think ppl get caught up in a complete fantasy that somehow there is way around full disclosure which is fallacy as money laudering is a crime in the UK. B)

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