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Filing a statement before a hearing

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20 Dec 07 #9332 by Jacko
Topic started by Jacko
I’m in court on 2nd of Jan. My x2b has filed a statement with the court through her solicitors addressing various issues.

I’m representing myself and not sure what to do? Do I also file a statement with the court before the 2nd addressing all the issues she has raised? Or do I wait until the hearing and address these issues then? I’m aware that I don’t want to go up in front of the judge for him/her to witness what they may well consider to be a petty little squabble!!

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20 Dec 07 #9336 by Specialdad
Reply from Specialdad
Did I miss something here??

You are representing yourself and you have a hearing on 2nd Jan and you dont know what to do or say!

The phrase from the frying pan into the fire comes to mind. I would advise you get some legal help fast. :S

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20 Dec 07 #9345 by Jacko
Reply from Jacko
Specialdad wrote:

Did I miss something here??

You are representing yourself and you have a hearing on 2nd Jan and you dont know what to do or say!

The phrase from the frying pan into the fire comes to mind. I would advise you get some legal help fast. :S


I didn't particularly want to go into all the details. I'm defending my divorce. Yes maybe it's stupid before you all start telling me!! so I didn't want this thread to get to side tracked on this issue.

The court wrote to me at the beginning of November to tell me " this divorce is fully defended according to the Acknowledgement or Service of the Supplemental Petition it must be removed from the special procedure list." so basically it's not going through on the nod and there is nothing going to happen until the hearing set for the 2nd Jan 2008 when “ The District Judge will give directions for the future conduct of the divorce if the existing Petition is not dismissed”

Her solicitors wrote to me at the beginning of November to say my x2b was “adamant” about proceeding with the petition and they would be filing a statement
Which dropped through my letterbox yesterday. There are about 5 pages of it bleating on about this and that and how they had toned things down in the Supplemental Petition, which we had mutually agreed to, and now they are going to raise this and that.

So my question is do I also file a 5-page statement with the court with counter bleats?? I’m sure the judge will be thinking what a petty squabble let’s just push this petition through to get them out of my face!! Not the sort of result I was looking.

My intention was to attend the hearing and all I was going to raise was the fact I don’t think they have followed divorce protocol and they haven’t worked within the required time frame. I just wanted to keep it simple I didn’t want to get bogged down in arguments and counter claims of my alleged UB.

I will now try and briefly explain some of the background on this.

X2b instructed her solicitors to start divorce proceedings July 2004 then told her sol to stop before the petition was filed! November 2005 she decided to tell her sol to start divorce proceedings again this time the petition was filed. Things happened and she stopped divorce proceedings in March 2006 promising me not to return to her sol and if worst happens we would part amicably. January 2007 she returns to her sol and asks them to reinstate the divorce. I have a sol at time not working so have LA he says big no no here more than 6 months have elapsed so it is considered that she is accepting of the facts and can’t bring them up again. He wonders how they will now proceed? They raise a supplemental Petition, which still brings up the same grounds and there are a few new issues. I still disagree with the grounds as she is bringing the children into it with false allegations. My sol isn’t going to try and defend on legal aid (understandably) I get a job and move away and dispense with my sol. The petition arrives 16th August I fill it in and tick the box to say I will be defending return it.

I write to the court as I’m supposed with twenty-eight days and outline my issues that basically there not playing by the rules and haven’t filed within the 6-month time scale. I didn’t send a copy to her sol I didn’t realise I should have at the time as they were aware of my intention to defend. Unbeknown to both parties there was a hearing on 30th October were it was ordered “the respondents application be listed on notice on the 2nd January 2008”

So now they are kicking off. I suppose I may have made them look stupid? Her solicitors seem like a bunch of incompetents. I think they are so used to divorces going through on the nod and raking in the profits they don’t check anything the Petitioners Questions, Chronology and Statement of Issues to my form E all have incorrect case number and they have all been signed by her solicitors on behalf of the Respondent!! I didn’t know I’d instructed them to do anything! LOL some body hasn’t been checking the office junior’s work!

They may be complaining I didn’t send them a copy of my answer but to date I have not received any of their remittance by the dates set by the court. Obviously they made sure their Form E and Petitioners Questions, Chronology and Statement of Issues were filled on time at court. I got them over a week past their courts deadlines. I assume this is just tactical thing on their part.

Hope you managed to read all that without going to sleep.

So back to my original question do I file a counter statement before the hearing or can I address their statement at the hearing? As I said I’m mindful of all they are going to do is side track me.

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20 Dec 07 #9361 by attilladahun
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What though are you REALLY trying to achieve by all this?

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20 Dec 07 #9362 by attilladahun
Reply from attilladahun
What though are you REALLY trying to achieve by all this?

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21 Dec 07 #9367 by Jacko
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Quite clearly stop the divorce!!

She can have a divorce but not this one. blame free in 18 months if we choose to agree or if we still can't then it will be 4 1/2 years. Though if i defend I could cross petition on grounds of adultery as she has her new partner living in the FMH till she bores of him. she has been arseing around for the last 3 1/2 years with solicitors whats the rush? No mortgage boys school at the top of the garden. I'm not expecting or asking that the FHM be sold It means I'm still keeping a roof over my childrens heads. Youngest is 6. I'm prepared to wait 12 years for a deferd sale and 50% she can look after my half of our investment till then. Though I would like to retain my £10K pre marital & £15K post marital pensions the only other assets involved. No need to be sharing with solicitors!

No I don't love her anymore and neither do I lie in bed at night hoping that one day she will come to her senses and we will be reconciled!

There are rules and it seems like no one gives a monkey's whether they are adhered to or not. As long as the divorce production line keeps churning them out! I agree with Bob Geldolf divorce is to easy. It seems to me the whole fabric of society is just falling apart. I'm not talking about forcing people to live in violent or abusive relationships. People should try harder to get on. It seems all to easy to get fed up give up and walk away.My parents are still together after 46 years they still have their ups and downs but they get on with it.


Had the UB been just issues even petty ones between her and me it might have been different! she's bringing the children into it and IM NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT!!

Ive just read through the statement she has filed. She has made more allegations that just aren't true such as the children would see me downloading hard core porn from the internet an absolute lie!True to say there is/was a collection of pornographic DVD's in the FHM guess what? I never bought, begged or borrowed any of them they all belong to her!! I didn't watch them either. Certain activities I prefer the hands on approach, though I do like watching motor racing!

She infers that everyone in the house was petrified of me so for the sakes of the boys she wanted me to leave! I have I live 230 miles away. She has been involved with one man who was on bail for beating another woman when she meet him. He then went on to brutally beat her whilst the boys were in bed. Has recently finished a 12 month prison sentence for these assaults. Her new partner has been previously sectioned under the mental health act and has a police record for harassment. She met him in a mental health unit a few years ago whilst I had time of work to look after the children for several weeks this actually cost me the job. the neighbours report that it's a very volatile relationship with lots of shouting and swearing going on!

she has told a mutual friend that the boys don't like this man.
She also complains that me only seeing the boys once a month doesn't give her much of a break! Why the hell does she even want the boys to spend time with an alleged monster such as me in view of the fact she states she belives she is acting in the children's best interests!

She also goes onto make further claims of physical abuse which in actual fact were unfortunate accidents for instance I was late taking the boys to swimming lessons we all went rushing out of the front door all the boys were following me out or so I thought in my haste I tripped and almost fell on a skateboard abandoned on the front foot path! i picked it up and in my haste threw it over the the fence into the back garden where it should have been!.At that moment one of the boys had gone back into the house and out into the garden to get something he'd forgotten? the skateboard bounced off a wheelie bin and hit him. the first I knew of this is when I heard him crying. She now states I deliberately threw it at him!! once she was in alone on one of the bedrooms when one of they boys fell off a bunk bed and broke his leg I would never claim this was anything other than an unfortunate accident.

She goes on to claim in her court statement that I have called her a drunken slag and a whore to the children this is again a complete lie!! I make a specific point of never saying anything negative about her to the children. Especially in view of the fact of the constant threat of legal action on UB over the last few years.

Here endeth the rant for this post!

I apologies to those of you that can't understand my logic and why I'm doing doing what I'm doing.

If you are right and I'm wrong I will come back in the new year and attempt to eat humble pie and tell you all you were right!!

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23 Dec 07 #9460 by attilladahun
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Quite clearly stop the divorce!! [OK but really what is the point]

She can have a divorce but not this one. blame free in 18 months if we choose to agree or if we still can't then it will be 4 1/2 years. tion]
[How long is the marriage + pre marital cohabitation? I say that because it may be more expensive in ancillary relief process if the assets increase in value -even though separated DJ's dDO take notice of the length of the relationship ie co hab + marriage -see point below re your £10K contribution.

Though if i defend I could cross petition on grounds of adultery as she has her new partner living in the FMH till she bores of him. she has been arseing around for the last 3 1/2 years with solicitors whats the rush?

[If you accept the marriage is over I would strongly suggest it is not only better for you but also your children that things move on. I suspect the main reason for not doing so is you feel that will assist your wife and you don't want that. It would be easy to agree with everyone on here but I am a solicitor who does not like to tell client's what they want to hear -the job is to predict what the Court will do or award THEN act on the client's instructions and sometimes people will do daft things.

There is life after divorce......and it is so important to remeber the good things from the marriage especially the children and forget as quickly as possible the bad things and move on.]

No mortgage boys school at the top of the garden. I'm not expecting or asking that the FHM be sold It means I'm still keeping a roof over my childrens heads. Youngest is 6. [ So if jnr goes to UNi you will have to deal with the mother for c 18 years -the danger therefore of dragging matters on will make it harder to deal with the child issues as ineviteably W will be resentful of you not allowing her to move on.}

I'm prepared to wait 12 years for a deferd sale

[and very fair of you especially as you could pay hefty CGT if the property goes up in value - now an old judge gave a client of mine advice in a situation like this -he said to him that if you accept the marriage is over and your wife has a relationship he suggested rather than spend money on a defened divorce it would be better spent sending THEM on a holidey in the hope their relationship will bloosom for if he lives with her or she remarries him you will then get your £ and not likely have to face the delay and CGT cost !!!! -Extreme I know but do you see the dynamics.....]

and 50% she can look after my half of our investment till then. Though I would like to retain my £10K pre marital

[ Depends on length of marriage -if long say 20 yrs + it won't matter a stuff.
If shorter then may be it will justify say an equal division of the equity......subject to whether W have SM rights.....but even if she has now if her relationship moves on I suggest you will want a Clean Break.

& £15K post marital pensions [ if that is all the pension has grown post marriage clearly not an issue to worry about]

the only other assets involved. No need to be sharing with solicitors!
[But you will be in a sense as if W continues with defended divorce family resources ARE being used and I suggest family resources would be better used bringing the conflict to an end]

No I don't love her anymore and neither do I lie in bed at night hoping that one day she will come to her senses and we will be reconciled! [= you accept it would be better to move on now]

There are rules and it seems like no one gives a monkey's whether they are adhered to or not.

[Court rules are proceedural - DJ's look wisely at the wider issues...Please read the overriding objective:

The overriding objective
1.1
(1)
These Rules are a new procedural code with the overriding objective of enabling the court to deal with cases justly.
(2)
Dealing with a case justly includes, so far as is practicable –
(a)
ensuring that the parties are on an equal footing;
(b)
saving expense;
(c)
dealing with the case in ways which are proportionate –
(i)
to the amount of money involved;
(ii)
to the importance of the case;
(iii)
to the complexity of the issues; and
(iv)
to the financial position of each party;
(d)
ensuring that it is dealt with expeditiously and fairly; and
(e)
allotting to it an appropriate share of the court’s resources, while taking into account the need to allot resources to other cases.

Application by the court of the overriding objective
1.2
The court must seek to give effect to the overriding objective when it –
(a)
exercises any power given to it by the Rules; or
(b)
interprets any rule subject to rule 76.2.

Duty of the parties
1.3
The parties are required to help the court to further the overriding objective.

Court’s duty to manage cases
1.4
(1)
The court must further the overriding objective by actively managing cases.
(2)
Active case management includes –
(a)
encouraging the parties to co-operate with each other in the conduct of the proceedings;
(b)
identifying the issues at an early stage;
(c)
deciding promptly which issues need full investigation and trial and accordingly disposing summarily of the others;
(d)
deciding the order in which issues are to be resolved;
(e)
encouraging the parties to use an alternative dispute resolution (GL) procedure if the court considers that appropriate and facilitating the use of such procedure;
(f)
helping the parties to settle the whole or part of the case;
(g)
fixing timetables or otherwise controlling the progress of the case;
(h)
considering whether the likely benefits of taking a particular step justify the cost of taking it;
(i)
dealing with as many aspects of the case as it can on the same occasion;
(j)
dealing with the case without the parties needing to attend at court;
(k)
making use of technology; and
(l)
giving directions to ensure that the trial of a case proceeds quickly and efficiently.

As long as the divorce production line keeps churning them out!

[Actually the Court is OBLIGED to adjourn a defended case and divorce if the parties genuinely want to try a reconcilliation or attend mediation so that is not correct

I agree with Bob Geldolf divorce is to easy. {You may well be right I remember thinking reducing the period from 3 years to 1 before divorce could start was a mistake as many parties in their first year struggle on occasons and to opt out after 1 year is sad. However the bad old days of the Divorce Reform Act 1969 were dreadful and there were terrible injustices especially to women]

It seems to me the whole fabric of society is just falling apart. I'm not talking about forcing people to live in violent or abusive relationships. People should try harder to get on.



It seems all to easy to get fed up give up and walk away.My parents are still together after 46 years they still have their ups and downs but they get on with it. [But the difference no doubt is they wanted to work at the marriage..where one doesn't it is torture to keep alive an ailing marriage.]

Had the UB been just issues even petty ones between her and me it might have been different! she's bringing the children into it and IM NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT!!

[It is appaling for parties to do that..DJ's are not at all impressed with that
If she makes say an allegation in the Petition re children you disagree with eg the nonsense re the Porn you should send an open letter offering not to defend the Petition ON CONDITION W withdraws the offending paras of the Petition when she applies for Directions for Trial. She does not even need to amend the Pet'n if it is done that way....At the next directions hearing the Judge will almost certainly tell W's solrs that if they do that he/she would still grant a decree on the remaining UB. If she still proceeds even if she wins but does not persuade the Court the allegations re porn etc are true the Court may award her NO costs for all the divroce incl the defended action.]

Ive just read through the statement she has filed. She has made more allegations that just aren't true such as the children would see me downloading hard core porn from the internet an absolute lie!True to say there is/was a collection of pornographic DVD's in the FHM guess what? I never bought, begged or borrowed any of them they all belong to her!! I didn't watch them either.

[In children proceedings I once had a sad case where a W issued an application to stop contact as she had found a Video H had made of him abusing himself pictured in the quiet of his loft -the indignant W thought the Crt would be apalled with the issue.....Result we got an order for costs payable equally by W and her solrs for wasting the Crt and our time -hell what did the H's activities (however bizarre affected his ability or more importantly the children's ability to see dad which they enjoyed.]

Certain activities I prefer the hands on approach, though I do like watching motor racing!

She infers that everyone in the house was petrified of me so for the sakes of the boys she wanted me to leave! I have I live 230 miles away.

[If you live away then the issue of staying contact will be massively important for you so the C can stay in hols for meaningful periods with you. I wonder whether a swift resolution to all the divorce acrimony would result in a trade off with W agreeing sensible staying contact arrangements.]

She has been involved with one man who was on bail for beating another woman when she meet him. He then went on to brutally beat her whilst the boys were in bed. Has recently finished a 12 month prison sentence for these assaults. Her new partner has been previously sectioned under the mental health act and has a police record for harassment. She met him in a mental health unit a few years ago whilst I had time of work to look after the children for several weeks this actually cost me the job. the neighbours report that it's a very volatile relationship with lots of shouting and swearing going on!

she has told a mutual friend that the boys don't like this man.
She also complains that me only seeing the boys once a month doesn't give her much of a break!

[Great then go for as much contact as you can][It does sound as if the C are in a very unstable environment and if they spend a lot more time with you they will be spared from these pressures. Things may even develop from there ....but it is important for the C that BOTH parents play an important role in their lives.

Why the hell does she even want the boys to spend time with an alleged monster such as me in view of the fact she states she belives she is acting in the children's best interests! [Clearly that is a worry -if she is not going to adequately protect them and make unwise life partner choices she can hardly have any qualms if you ultimately apply for a Residence Order. If you cannot get on with her a joint residence order seems doomed from the start.

If you want to cut out the lawyers why not suggest you and she see a mediator asap to sort divorce and the C issues....if so the finances will be easier to sort.

She also goes onto make further claims of physical abuse which in actual fact were unfortunate accidents for instance I was late taking the boys to swimming lessons we all went rushing out of the front door all the boys were following me out or so I thought in my haste I tripped and almost fell on a skateboard abandoned on the front foot path! i picked it up and in my haste threw it over the the fence into the back garden where it should have been!.At that moment one of the boys had gone back into the house and out into the garden to get something he'd forgotten? the skateboard bounced off a wheelie bin and hit him. the first I knew of this is when I heard him crying.

[Clearly an accident -but the issue is if one looses temper in C's presence it needs to be addressed ]

She now states I deliberately threw it at him!! once she was in alone on one of the bedrooms when one of they boys fell off a bunk bed and broke his leg I would never claim this was anything other than an unfortunate accident.

She goes on to claim in her court statement that I have called her a drunken slag and a whore to the children this is again a complete lie!! I make a specific point of never saying anything negative about her to the children. Especially in view of the fact of the constant threat of legal action on UB over the last few years.

Here endeth the rant for this post!

I apologies to those of you that can't understand my logic and why I'm doing doing what I'm doing.

If you are right and I'm wrong I will come back in the new year and attempt to eat humble pie and tell you all you were right!!

[Sorry my comments are also long but it will give a different perspective
Hope some of that helps]

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