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Does it get any easier?

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06 Sep 12 #354282 by Marshy_
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ffc1991 wrote:

I don''t get why she just wont talk to me.


Its too soon. You need to give her some space. Its like a bad boss in your face all the time, kicking you along. You will hate it. And so will she. Push something and you push it away.

How can she not see this isn''t the case.


Cos of the above. People are not machines. You cant expect them to perform cos you want them to. They will do what they want. But she is a mum. She will know whats right for her child. So she will want you in it. But you cant do it without mums backing. So give her some space.

Tbh Iv''e made it very clear to my current partner that the step dad role just isn''t for me atm with everything going on.


You cant be half a dad. Its an all or nothing role. The child needs a dad. So if you cant commit to the child, why are you with the mother? A partner with a child is a package. You cant cherry pick what you want.

For exactly the reasons you stated. I''d hate for her daughter to get attached to me for it to simply not work it just wouldn''t be fair. As you said it''s more than just me and her at stake. It doesen''t help now that the fact it''s going to be more complicated with me moving location and transferring Uni''s to be closer to my daughter but also suppose it will give me time to properly think about things and us in a sense.


Then you need to do whats right. For all concerned.

Like you say until I shed the guilt which I think will take a very long time I''ll just have to deal with it.


You do. It will just hold you back. And you have a life to build. And you cant do it with 10 tons of concrete around your neck.

Life isnt easy. We make decisions and we have to stick by them often. But make a big mistake early in life when we are not ready or able to exploit it means that we pay dearly later on. This is why you see a lot of divorces in people who are 30''s and 40''s. They married young. Realised they made a mistake and didnt do anything about it. But its too late when you start a family. You have to stick with it until you are old enough to end it. And thats like a bomb going off in most cases. Just dont let that be you. Set out on the right foot. And hopefully yr life will be walking between the raindrops.

Sorry again... C.

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06 Sep 12 #354286 by ffc1991
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I think you kind of misunderstood when I said I wanted to be the fun uncle. I ofcourse would be there if she ever needs support and if things worked out and went long term financially I''d support etc etc. Yes her Dad isn''t the best. He pays CM and see''s his daughter every now and then (when he can be bothered half the time) but my partners daughter is very attached to him and it''s very clear to see. So is there a need for a step dad role as your put it? I dunno how to explain it really.

The problem is that I don''t know what I truely want. I know i''m incredibly fond of my current partner and yes it''s early days but it''s going very well. She''s obviously been there for me to date when Iv''e been in court etc etc and going back in couple months time. I''m probbaly a pain in ass half the time well I am lol and she''s been amazing even if I don''t talk to her about stuff like this etc.

I''d like to talk about it tbh but I''m from a pretty disfunctional family myself. I don''t really have a real relationship with my parents. I was packed off to boarding school from the age of 11 and when i left age 16 I moved into my own house which they paid for. Bar my sister I don''t really have many people who I trust to confide in.

My EX wasn''t perfect ofcourse but she was a very special person to me, like i said me ending it was more about me holding her back as much as anything.

I feel more like a coward than courage and confidence personally but that''s another matter.


Don''t have to be sorry what your saying makes sense In a way lol I appreciate your time and honesty :).

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06 Sep 12 #354288 by Marshy_
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Hi LoopyLoops..

QPRanger wrote:

Marshy I disagree about the guilt: its only natural and, if you know that you have done things wrong in your previous relationship, the guilt gives you the opportunity to learn from your mistakes and become a better person.


Cool. But you dont need guilt to learn a lesson. Like when you learned the times tables or english, science. Did you feel guilty then? Did it help you learn?

Thing is, we all make mistakes. No one is whiter than white. And thats a fact. But how does it help you feeling bad about what happened? Just learn from it. Its all a big lesson.

I think I will live with my guilt for the rest of my life: not in a ''can''t move on and beating myself up every day'' kinda way because, like the grief and depression, the guilt lessons with time but I don''t think it will ever leave me. It will remind me NEVER to put myself in the situation I was before.


I love the sentiment. And thats exactly what I did. But I made mistakes. I wasnt whiter than white. Ok, my trousers didnt fall of like my ex''s knickers did. But I learned from it. Like you will. And you will have standards and perhaps not be like you were again. This is good. I know I was a doormat and a stepping stone. Never will I be that again. This is my lesson.

On the other side of the coin I honestly believe that my ex has NO guilt and truly believes the breakdown of our marriage was 100% down to me (it wasn''t).


You dont know that as a fact. Its really hard to second guess someone. I bet you thought you knew the ex right? Except you didnt. Most people have trouble understanding themselves let alone other people.

If you know the truth, thats all that matters. If it wasnt 100% your fault then thats that. This is the truth. And thats all you need to know. Sod what she thinks... C.

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07 Sep 12 #354415 by Marshy_
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Hi FFC. Its very hard to get down in writing what you want to express. I perhaps am better at it then you. But I am crap at saying things. Perhaps you are the other way round. Being a brief and all :)


ffc1991 wrote:

I think you kind of misunderstood when I said I wanted to be the fun uncle. I ofcourse would be there if she ever needs support and if things worked out and went long term financially I''d support etc etc.


Perhaps I did misunderstand. As I said at the top. Its hard to convey exactly what you mean. But honestly, turn the tables. Put yrself in the childs shoes and what would you want from you? When you work this out, be that person. If you can of course. If you cant be that person then you shouldnt be there. A relationship with a child is not like a relationship with an adult (duh). Kids can be very damaged by relationships that are wrong. I will explain a bit more later when we get to your upbringing.

Yes her Dad isn''t the best. He pays CM and see''s his daughter every now and then (when he can be bothered half the time) but my partners daughter is very attached to him and it''s very clear to see. So is there a need for a step dad role as your put it? I dunno how to explain it really.


Yes of course there is a role for you. Of course she is attached to her dad. Thats as it should be. But you are another dad. And kids can have lots of dads in there lives. As long as they are there all the time. Again, relationships with kids is different . And its way harder to get it right and do the right thing by them. Kids need solid people in there lives. People that they can depend on. This allows them to grow strong and tall and confident knowing that they have a stable home behind them with at least 1 loving person in their lives. Two or more is better of course.

The problem is that I don''t know what I truely want. I know i''m incredibly fond of my current partner and yes it''s early days but it''s going very well.


And this is the problem. If you dont know what you want, how can you be where you are now? You dont have the right to be in their lives if you are not committed to them. Can you not see that? They deserve to be number one in someones life. Not a "not sure". I hope this is clear. As it needs to be. Mum is a package. She comes with kids. And if you are not down for them 100%, then you cant be in that space.

To be honest, many mums hold back the partner from meeting the kids too quickly. As they dont want a string of people in their lives. So it shows that she thinks you are them "one" if you have contact with the kids. Time will tell if her decision was right or not.

She''s obviously been there for me to date when Iv''e been in court etc etc and going back in couple months time. I''m probbaly a pain in ass half the time well I am lol and she''s been amazing even if I don''t talk to her about stuff like this etc.


Of course she is there for you. If she wasnt, would you be with her? This is your partner and perhaps wife one day. A mother is not just a bit of skirt. She is a complete family with dependents. She will want and need commitment from you that your not wasting her time. She will want a father role from you. Its a big thing getting involved with someone with kids. Not to be taken lightly. And double tough that the kids are not yours.

Bringing up someone else''s kids is very very hard. And there will be times, esp when they are older, that you will get the "you are not my dad". And things like that. You need to be tough to operate in this space. And not lose your rag. Bounce back from not "my dad" things..

I''d like to talk about it tbh but I''m from a pretty disfunctional family myself. I don''t really have a real relationship with my parents. I was packed off to boarding school from the age of 11 and when i left age 16 I moved into my own house which they paid for. Bar my sister I don''t really have many people who I trust to confide in.


Years ago. I would have said that you were born with a silver spoon. Nowadays, I have more life experience I would say otherwise. I would say that you are just as disadvantaged as I was. Its the opposite of abuse. Not learning that you have to earn what you have and pay your way is not good for people. I know some very f*cked up people that have started out life this way and they value nothing as everything they have has been handed to them. And, they are ar*holes, TBH.

For me, I had the opposite of you. And in its own way, just as bad. Brought up in an inner city. Parents fighting each other and me in the way all the time. Trying to be peace maker, referee, defender of mum, punch bag. I used to blag 2 bob of me old ma not to tell the teacher about the bruises I had to keep the dreaded social away. Feck knows why. As they didnt need me. They would have been better off without this ragdoll trying to calm them down. And the social would have removed this problem for them.

Everything I have ever had, I have earned. And I am proud of that. Proud that I didnt turn out like my dad. Proud that I use my brains to sort things out instead of my fists.

But we are not prisoners of our up bringing. Its not a life sentance and you cant blame your past forever. You can take control and break the cycle. In my case its violence. I never hit my kids. I am the opposite of my parents. I broke the cycle. And my past is not me. I am me. Like you should be you. Learn from it. Dont make the same mistakes. Otherwise, what is the point?

Are you telling me... That you would send your kids to boarding school and buy them a flat at 16? Or, would you send them to a normal (but good) school and let them earn there own way? If you reject what happened to you, then you have already learned from it. And you wont make the same mistakes your parents made. Just your own(bad) mistakes.

My EX wasn''t perfect ofcourse but she was a very special person to me, like i said me ending it was more about me holding her back as much as anything.


I have lots of friends that are special to me. And some of them, I love to bits and I am down for them whenever they need me. And they are down for me. But I could never have a relationship with the female varients (or male). As that is not what our relationship is about. Its friendship. Life teaches you who you can have more than a freindship with and who you cant. I think, that in the case of the ex, you saw her more as a friend that you loved deeply more than anything. And you couldnt make that leap to a full relationship. And you loved that freind so much, that you had a child with her. I think you are braver than you think. I will come to that..

I feel more like a coward than courage and confidence personally but that''s another matter.


Do you know what... I think you are brave. What you did wasnt cowardly at all. A coward stays. A coward is someone that puts up with something and doesnt say anything. A coward sells out there life just cos they are not brave enough to do anything about it. You did something about it. You was brave enough and smart enough to work out it wasnt working even though, it broke your heart. That isnt a coward.

I help many people. Over the years on WV and outside of it. The one overriding factor, is that we dont do anything about the bad situation we find ourselves in. My ex was handy with the number 1 frying pan and anything she could get her hands on. I should have kicked her sad a*se out the 1st time I got the good news. But I didnt. Cos I am a coward. See. You are very brave to do what you did.

Don''t have to be sorry what your saying makes sense In a way lol I appreciate your time and honesty :)


Trust me when I say, I hate giving people are kick up the a*se. I would much prefer to hold someones hand and help them thru there divorce journey. But sometimes you have to be tough with someone. My mate Karen is like that. Sometimes I have to be tough with her (like when she was drinking) and kind to her (when she got dumped) and she was in bits. Or when she buys clothing that is really wrong for her.

I didnt have any of this as a child. My parents taught me how not to act. In a sense. So I just do the opposite.

So... Have a think about what you want. As this is not about you. Its about a family and if you wana be a proper part of it or not. Its not rocket science. Plenty of people can do it. You can do it. Thats if you want to. But if you are not ready or its not right for you, then bug out. Let her find someone that is worthy of that role. But if you wana be with them, you have to earn that place on the team. And that means being 10000000% committed to them. Its an all or nothing thing. And its wrong to waste someones time. Cos time is the one thing that is of any value. C.

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07 Sep 12 #354424 by ffc1991
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Yh I find it much easier to just say things face to face, when it comes to writing it down i''m useless and quite often misunderstood, actually one of the reasons i''m in the situation i''m in now :/ my EX misunderstanding things iv''e said to her in the past.

I see what your saying and I 100% agree with you, I don''t think I can play a bit part so to speak, and I also hear you when they say they can have more than 2 Dads I suppose. I think it''s another form of feeling guilty of taking another Dad''s place. Especially as my EX partner has a new partner and I know how I felt when I heard he was holding my daughter etc etc. It wasn''t a pleasant feeling at first. Knowing he seems my child more than I do and i''m being restricted for no reason.

I do see that and tbh this is why i''m finally talking to someone about it even if a stranger which perhaps is better as I get the full straight opinion lol. At times when i''m feeling fine after seeing my daughter and things are looking better I''m obviously a totally different person I can have fun with her daughter etc etc. But when i''m down in the dumps I feel i''m just not the right person. Yes I quite often imagine being told your not my dad bla bla bla lol. This is another problem in the fact that me and my partner have huge differences in how we bring up our own children or how we''d like them to be.

I''m quite the authorative person probably stems from my own father and she''s very laid back nd lets her near 2 year old run wild half the time and drives me nuts lol.

Yh quite often say I was lucky having a parents who bank rolled me and still do to an extent but I think quite the opposite. Yes I had a fantastic education amazing grades set for an amazing grade in my University course, but I had no real childhood friends and for so many years I was the most socially inept person you would meet. My EX partner was my only ever real true friend and in my eyes will always be my best friend.

I think I''d like my child to have a very good education like myself and tbh boarding or private school achieves that but I would most definately do things differently to how my parents did. I dont resent them for not being there for me, They''ve been property developers all their lives and travel the world all the time. I chose boarding school rather than travelling and being home taught. I always wanted a good education and from the age of 10 wanted to be a teacher. So I dont blame them for that and Is also the reason bar my sister who much older I have no real relationship with any of my family, as my twin and other sister chose to travel and be home taught etc. (they have a poop education :P)

Anyways rearing off track here lol

I think you hit the nail on the head completely. I always thought that I loved my EX but waqsn''t in love with her hard to explain. I wanted to be there for her no matter what and I always will be but I just didn''t see myself with her forever and marraige etc. But Iv''e always struggled with commitment and I use to put it down to this and me just throwing in the towel as per usual but bar my daughter and education iv''e never really stuck to anything.

I see what your saying and It does make me think a little but I suppose with it still be so early on and still in court fighting to see my daughter I see things differently and when I''m being told I left my daughter It doesen''t help etc etc.

I truely feel that if me and my EX was on good terms again and there for our daughter the pair of us i''d feel a whole lot better, and thats why I say am I being selfish wanting this. I do know before court when I was seeing my daughter and me and my EX was going out as a lil family but not in a relationship that was when I wasn''t feeling like I do now. But I can understand it must be just as hard for her she loved me more than anything and wanted marriage more kids etc.

Obviously you dont know my case as on another diff part of the forum but her parents have a massive dislike to me and I put 80% of her behaviour down to them. There very evil people and Iv''e seen there vindictive evil ways first hand towards my EX. She''s now amongst them again and can only feel I''ll never have tht friendship back purely because of others. When we meet face to face handovers etc will agree things, things ae rosey, within a day or 2 i''ll receive an email saying no that isn''t happening you gotta do this. So its all outside influences. This has happened dozens of times and why I had to eventually go to court to get an order.

I think with me now transferring Uni''s and going to have that little bit of time where i''ll be all on my tod literally as I have no friends or family in the area i''ll be able to properly think about what I want. But I also dread it as being on my tod completely is gonna be very depressing lol.

Thanks once again Marhsy

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07 Sep 12 #354485 by Marshy_
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Hi FFC.

No one gets it totally right in life. Often, we make plans and we expect life to follow us. Except it dont. Life has its own plans that usually means that we have to follow IT instead of it following US. But as long as we understand that. Its cool.

Just expanding the many dads thing. Yes you can have have many dads. But just one mum. Or an aunt that could be a sorta mum. Or a Nan. But many dads. Defo. So dont worry.

As for for your ex and her new man and him holding your daughter, this is right and proper. He is not taking over your role or muscling in. He is keeping her warm while you are away. No one will replace you unless you want him too. And its healthy for your daughter to have more than 1 father figure in her life. This is where we have to separate out our own feelings for what is right for someone. Many make this mistake and go to war and forget who the victims are. Its often the kids. So a Marshy suggestion for you.... When something like this happens again, stop.... Think.... Who benefits? Put the kid 1st and your own feelings second. This is why its so hard to be a step dad or a remote dad. You have to suck a lot up for the benefit of others.

You said this:

But when i''m down in the dumps I feel i''m just not the right person.


This is I suspect is a confidence attack. Like people have panic attacks, you have times when you lose all confidence. More common than you think. You see this in professional people. They go to pieces for no reason. There is nothing I can say about this. Only that you learn to live with it. I say this because I also suffer from the condition. I have a senior role. And there are times, when my confidence just goes. I have tried to have treatment for it. But I have to just live with it. Comes with the turf...

You said this:

This is another problem in the fact that me and my partner have huge differences in how we bring up our own children or how we''d like them to be.


It could be that you dont mean what you say or you could be saying, this is what I want and this is how I want them to be. I am not sure. But you cant tell another parent what you want the kids to be or how to bring them up. Thats like co owning a building and telling the other co owner you want to add another floor. I am sorry, but differences mean conflict. If you were perhaps to explore with your partner. Take her view and work with her to achieve what she wants and perhaps find some common ground. Its sounds a bit dictatorial to be honest. People wont respond very well to that. Esp when they have a vested interest in a child. Try and understand. Listen. Question. Often, someone else''s way will be better. No one has all the answers.

You said this:

I''m quite the authorative person probably stems from my own father and she''s very laid back nd lets her near 2 year old run wild half the time and drives me nuts lol.


You sound it to be honest. Being like this will make you very hard to get on with / live with. My dad was like this. I am not like this. I spoke to my kids and if they needed to be punished, I would ask them how it should be done. I like the idea that 2 year olds can run wild. Cos thats what 2 YO''s do. And thats how they learn. U cant expect a 2YO to sit still. Make no noise and so on. I think you need to drop the authoritive. May work at work. But life? Forget it. People will just hate you for it.

I think my parents gave me a great education. A template for not how to do things. And because of them, I am driven. I am motivated to succeed. But also to have humility and treasure others and wake every day and be glad of that day. But we are all different. But make the most of what you have. We are all dealt a set of cards. And it would be a crime not to use what we have wisely. But dont forget that your not invincible.

You have to give your ex time. Time to get her head round what has happened. Time to settle into her new life and time to get over you.

One of the things we say at WV to new people that join is not to have any contact with the ex. The reason for this distance is to get stronger. Or strong enough to get over them. So allow her that time. And space. She is not stupid. She will know that you are needed in her kids life so she will want you there. But not right now. I know you are impatient. But this is not the time for alacrity.

I know you think that there is a lot of outside influence at play here. But grant her the concept that she has the intelligence to work things out herself. People are not like you think. Most of us, dont listen to advice. We do our own thing. If we listened more, we would do a lot better. But in yr ex''s case, she perhaps has a view of you. And you hammering her just compounds that view. I find... That if I leave someone be, they will work it out. There is no need to keep on at her. Let the dust settle.

You wont be on yr tod. Uni is one big party. You have a potential family. Its for them that you should be doing what you are doing. This is another thing that parents do. Slave for there kids. Every buck they turn is for them.

This must be a lot for you to think about and work out. I would take a back seat. Have a good think about what you want and where you are going. Not everything you do or say is right. Not all the ways you act is right. I know you said you are like yr father, but you have to be yr own person. Not living and setting yr life to someone else''s shadow. You have yr own to occupy. C.

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07 Sep 12 #354499 by ffc1991
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Hello again lol

Regarding my EX and her new partner to date iv''e only said nothing but positive things to her, glad your happy bla bla bla. Not 1 word of negativity as tbh from what I can tell he''s a decent guy only met him couple of times admittingly a few years ago. But I do also agree with what your saying it will be good for her, but ofcourse the hurt will never go away knowing I was being stopped from seeing my daughter (12 weeks it was at 1 point) to then see these photos etc, imo nothing but anger and hurt will be felt if I didn''t then I tuely couldn''t of cared. Now it''s not to bad but whilst i''m being restricted by the ex and making me go via the courts i''ll have that animosity a little of someone else seeing my daughter when her father is being told he can''t.

I''m quite a confident person tbh with you so it could be that but when I say I just physically can''t I wouldn''t say its a confidence thing maybe more of a whats the point stance I dunno hard to explain. When i''m down in the dumps I hit selfish mode and don''t want to socialise with others wether it''s my gf or her daughter etc.

Another misunderstanding I think haha, iv''e never told my partner how to bring up her child I quite simply wouldn''t dare, she''s a few years older than me and is her own person how she chooses to bring up her daughter is her job and I ofcourse understand everyone has there own ways, no way is perfect I understand that. I give my opinion but it''s never telling her she makes her own choices. I wouldn''t say iv''e been in her daughters life long enough to feel I could do a role of telling her off what to do etc.

I''m quite an authorative person yes but not in a nasty and dictorial way hard to see the difference I suppose but once again hard to explain. If i believe in something and think somethings right it will take a lot of effort to get me to differ of my opinion. Hell I even tell my University Tutor he''s wrong sometimes lol. It''s a bad trait I know and something I have worked on lol.

When I say run wild I don''t mean running round screaming shouting, hell I''m a big kid even I do that when playing with her or my niece, nephew etc. I literally mean run wild, pulling stuff out draws and screaming at her mother and hitting her with very little telling off if any at all, if she misbehaves starts crying sheel get rewarded...... You can se where i''m going with this.

Regarding my EX Iv''e read some of your other posts aswell where you state you don''t know what they''re thinking etc etc. But like i said iv''e seen first hand how manipulative her family are. This is the reason she first moved in with me. They told her lies about me cheating on her when I had hardly met them. They wanted there daughter to themselves there pure evil, when she chose me over them. Pure utter hatred wouldn''t even go close to how they feel about me.

When we meet at handovers and agree I can do something and have a discussion get on fine no arguments agree something all rosey. Sheel then go home (currently lives with family) and within 2 hours i''ll receive an email everytime things have changed, Iv''e changed my mind etc etc. This is 100% outside influences. Just to descibe there hatred for me i''m quite often referred to by my real name and not Daddy by her parents.

Regarding no contact it''s a little hard atm as were in court proceedings and kinda being told to try talk more to sort thing out. I sent an email not to long agao saying everthing I could and hope 1 day you''ll talk to me face to face to explain things bla bla other than that it''s strictly talk regarding our daughter.

I know I wont be on my tod in a sense haha, but with no family and friends to start with (as i''m transferring Uni''s) and with me entering in my final year where they''ve spent 2 years together it will take more time to make friends. I''m not the most pro-active when it comes to making friends like my own company through choice majority of the time. Obviously aswell I will only be seeing my partner every other weekend as my current contact order allows me to see my daughter every Saturday for 2 hours. So sheel be doing the travelling to come see memajority of the time. Unless my Uni timetable gives me Monday off (fingers crossed)

THanks once again ;)

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