Wife serves me the "news" while abroad

Nigella19 wrote:

I agree with Cookie, in my opinion and this is only an opinion based on my experience and certainly not to be taken as the truth underlying your problem - when this happened to me, there was more to it than I was ever being told. That could be the reason why it was delivered to you by phone - otherwise, knowing her as well as you do, she could have feared you may have read her face, expression, body language.

It would also explain why she has been thinking about it for a long time but has not included you in on those thoughts or given you an inkling of an idea that she''s not happy with the way things are.

Usually the spouse is purposely left in the dark in favour of including someone else who is hearing all about her feelings, her marriage, what''s wrong with it and all the time getting closer to her, coming between the marriage partners and pushing further away the unsuspecting spouse, who should be the recipient of all this information and at least be given the opportunity to respond and work on the issues before things go too far. Sadly, usually before the spouse is told or finds out, it has gone too far and he/she is presented with a fait accompli - it''s over, I love you but I''m not in love with you.

The 3rd party meanwhile is presenting a blinding image - has none of the spouse''s weaker points, every one of the spouse''s good points only better, and much much more.

By the time the unsuspecting spouse is dealt the shocking blow of the ''love you but not in love with you'' line*, the one who is leaving has done all their thinking, ably aided and assisted by the 3rd party, made their decision and will not reconsider.

(*The odd part about that line being spun I think, again only my observation, is that you surely need a benchmark or control (in the form of another person) to determine whether you are ''in love'' with or you just ''love'' your spouse of some years. Otherwise how can you differentiate? How do I know I am not ''in love'' with you unless I am comparing what I feel for you to what I am feeling for someone else ?

Can I compare what I feel for you to a state of mind I call ''in love'' - though this exists not in the reality of my feelings for another, but only in my imagination? Yet this is so Absolute and certain and strong that I am willing to take the enormous step of breaking up my family? Let alone giving up my 5 bed home, live-in nanny, supportive spouse who I LOVE and bringing my beloved children up between divorced parents ! Really ?) - sorry I digress - we need a new thread on this one !

Perhaps you should ask your wife how she knows she is not ''in love'' with you any more, what is she comparing her love for you to? When did loving you become not enough ? The answer would be interesting. In the absence of not being able to give you any sensible answer, what they previously said usually starts to morph into ''well I''m not really sure I was ever really in love with you/loved you''.
They can''t say, well I thought I was in love with/loved you until X came along and then I realised by comparison that ..... And with any credibility they can''t say, well I know we''ve got two little kids and a good life and I love you but I''ve got this thing in my head about what being in love really is and given it doesn''t match what we have after Y number of years you know what I''m gonna take a chance out there in the big wide lonely unpredictable world ..... It doesn''t make sense. Especially for a woman who is insecure ?

That tends to be what happens, in leaving out what makes sense (someone else involved) they give us all this nonsense that try as we might we can make no sense out of.

My opinion only again, but in situations where there is no underlying problems such as abuse, alcoholism or other sinister issues afoot, which does not seem to be the case here from what you have said, mature spouses with little children, good living standards (live-in nannies!), loving and supportive husbands who they in turn love do not give all that up because they decide they are not ''in love'' any more but have moved on to ''living and loving'' and that''s not good enough. Do they ?

Unless there is someone else influencing them so to do.

I really hope this doesn''t turn out to be the case for you and that you and your wife can sort out these difficulties and move on bringing your children up in the context of a loving family. The world of divorce can be a very ugly one indeed. My best wishes, Nige.

You''ve probably just given the most scientific analysis I have ever read of the reasons why affairs take place. Either you are professionally qualified at giving such advise or you have given this much thought. Thanks for taking the time to write all that down.

But put simply, if there weren''t any issues in the first place, this would never have happened. Just why don''t woman talk about these issues with their H''s. Men need to be told what they are thinking, what to do, how to do it. Else we just live our lives in ignorant bliss. We show our love by changing light bulbs and mowing the grass (mass generalization I know), not by standing at the bedroom door and saying "i love you" every 5 minutes.

Don''t get me wrong, I could have shown more appreciation, but I wasn''t an emotional recluse and think I did more in terms of showing love than the average bloke.

I do hope you are wrong, but it all making so much sense now. Her actions and the things she says are so not her.

On another note, I spoke with her last night. I call everyday to chat to the kids and the conversations I have with her are short and business like. This week the nanny is on holiday and she is looking after the kids on her own (not at work as its half term). She sounded very down, I mentioned she sounds sad and asked whats wrong, she said "everything" and began to cry. Mentioned the youngest has a slight cold and is grizzly and this week is taking a lot out of her. Then said she had to go.

Perhaps she''s feeling the pressure of being on her own without the support of a nanny and is starting to realise the implications of her decision. Maybe just a bad day? Who knows as we don''t talk much?

Part of me wants to start pulling the financial support a bit so she can feel what it may be like in the future. I don''t think she has truly thought of life after the D, perhaps this would make her see the error in her judgment and want to try reconcile (again wishful thinking).

But the other part of me says that''s cruel to her and the kids and will just drive her away even more.

You might find it interesting to look at personality disorders.

When my ex first left my brother told me he thought my ex had BPD - borderline personality disorder. I was so rosey and supportive of him that I said no I don''t think so but if he is he is only borderline borderline.

Now I stand back and look at it and think he is one of the most evil people of all time. He suffers no remorse for anything he has done, denies to the social services that he ever hit his children or did anything wrong, states that he has no intention of making anyone homeless (has two charges in bankruptcy against the house for a total of £600,000 which is way in excess of the value of the house).

You cannot get a true word out of him at all and he is absolutely detirmined to blame everything on me, my mum his kids my ex legal teams and UK Judges.

He believes that arrogance will rule the world.

I am not suggesting for one minute that your wife (or you) fall anyway into that catagory. However, I do have a girlfriend who knows that she suffers from insecurity and has used and been horrible to her husband in the past who is now in therapy for a personality disorder.

Some people have problems either genetic or learnt which they can overcome and some people have problems which they will never face and attempt to overcome.

The challenge as I see it is to work out your own strengths and weaknessess, work on sorting them out and also try to establish what is worth fighting for and what you need to drop to live your life.

A good saying maybe is you can take a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.

soulruler wrote:

You might find it interesting to look at personality disorders.

Yeah you could do that. You could spend hours trawling the internet, reading books, talking to people about this kind of thing. You could spend weeks psycho-analysing your STBX wife and trying to work out the exact reason for every little thing she does. You could send her all sorts of help brochures, telephone numbers, courses, doctors recommendations, etc.

Or you could just file for divorce and move on with your own life.

I know which I''d choose.

Cookie said "Yeah you could do that. You could spend hours trawling the internet, reading books, talking to people about this kind of thing. You could spend weeks psycho-analysing your STBX wife and trying to work out the exact reason for every little thing she does. You could send her all sorts of help brochures, telephone numbers, courses, doctors recommendations, etc

Or you could just file for divorce and move on with your own life
I know which I''d choose." (sorry don''t know how to put bits of text from other posters into those grey boxes - Nige).

Respect to you Cookie, however my view differs because the suggestion to ''Just file for divorce and move on with your own life'' to me is too hasty a reaction and KiP does not yet know what exactly is going on with his wife. And he is in shock.

There are four lives at risk here - two are those of innocent, very young children who will be greatly impacted by what eventuates. KiP has a big responsibility towards his children as does his wife, though she may not be thinking quite straight at the present time which makes it all the more important that he keeps a clear and cool head. I don''t think your life is completely your own to move on with once you bring children into it - though there seem to be number of errant and irresponsible spouses who don''t appear to share that view.

The word ''just'' in ''Just file for divorce'' makes me wince. I don''t know exactly why but I think it''s cos it sounds so easy peasy, piece of cakey when the reality isn''t, eg

aside from the often lengthy timeframes and draining process of completing against all your desires the forms, the financial settlement, the parenting plan etc, i.e. the tools that serve to dismantle the very framework your life is built upon and that you want desperately to keep, the inherent pain, misery and anxiety of this for someone who is still madly in love with his wife and loves his children as KiP does can be close to unbearable. It''s not like ripping off a band aid - just do it quick and it won''t hurt.

And that''s only the mechanics, you then have to live the divorce - e.g. the first time I watched my little one, who still could not fully understand the situation, carry his packed bag down the garden path to his father''s car to spend a week with the OW who he did not know and me not knowing how well he would be looked after or influenced, was ... well it just was.

Say KiP did spend hours trawling the internet and reading books and talking to people, and yet more weeks psycho analysing his wife and giving her brochures etc. in a valiant effort to save the marriage. As divorce is not what he wants or of his making and it will lose him the wife and family unit he loves, the hours so spent seem justified to me. On balance, they pale to insignificance when compared to the hours he will spend alone post a divorce - almost certainly heartsore and devastated, endlessly mulling over and picking over the events that lead up to the divorce, the relentless hurt and torment of what ifs and should ofs and could ofs. Few of us can avoid this early stage of grief and many on here know how agonisingly long a time it can take to work through all the stages of grief and to heal and rebuild your life to the point where you can even conceive of ''moving on with your own life'' in any real sense. You have after all been on the receiving end of the shock that your spouse no longer wants you and you have become divorced, and left not in the best of mental or financial health !

And even if KiP''s time and efforts ultimately were in vain and the marriage could not be saved at least he would have the peace in his heart of knowing he tried as best he could to make a difference.

Well that''s my view anyway, but your experience may have lead you to a different but equally valid one Cookie. Yes, I know I go on ... and on ... hope you are managing ok KiP.

Best wishes, Nige.

Yeah I know I''m a bit of a hard-ass. I don''t believe in pussy footing around an issue. If the marriage is over then it should be ended sooner rather than later and pontificating over why XXX did YYY is not going to help. I did that enough, and it was simply wasted time and mental energy.

If the marriage is not over then sure try to help her out but from the posts so far I would say it certainly is over. But only KIP can make that judgement call of course.

Loveya cookie ! Nige.

Both of you have very valid points and given me a lot to ponder about. Again thanks for taking the time and inclination to assist in this matter.

Cookie, I quite like your matter of fact approach and its maybe what I need, a dose of reality and a good kick in the head - "get on with it you dumb ass, its over cant you see that. Stop torturing yourself and move on with your life" And I''m sure you''re speaking from experience and wish someone gave you the same advice you''re throwing my way at the moment. I will probably kick myself in the future for not moving on quicker.

But at this stage of the game when its so raw I just cant bring myself to cut the head off just yet.

I sincerely believe she is making a rash decision without considering the reasons and the consequences that follow. How can I give up on this family and these kids without a fight. She may have thrown in the towel at the first sign of an emotional change, but I wont. This is my family and the well being of my children, not to mention the woman I love and know loves me.

I don''t believe that a couple should remain in an unhappy relationship just for the sake of the kids (even though many do and the kids turn out fine because of it) but I do believe that by having kids you at least owe them a chance to try sort this, not to mention the person who you married and loves you dearly. What happened to the commitments people make when they take their vows. Just because a marriage may be broken doesn''t mean you just throw it away, surely you try fix it.

My wife is not willing to do this, in fact calls me up and ends 15 years like a high school crush. Now she has her reasons, one of them may be infidelity or may be depression/sickness, who knows.

Perhaps I''m just trying to find solace in the fact that I can live with this better in the future if I know I gave it all I could, even if my wife didn''t at least I tried.