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What are we each entitled to in our divorce settlement?

What does the law say about how to split the house, how to share pensions and other assets, and how much maintenance is payable.

What steps can we take to reach a fair agreement?

The four basic steps to reaching an agreement on divorce finances are: disclosure, getting advice, negotiating and implementing a Consent Order.

What is a Consent Order and why do we need one?

A Consent Order is a legally binding document that finalises a divorcing couple's agreement on property, pensions and other assets.

 

Split 50/50?

  • modgirl
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20 Sep 15 #466954 by modgirl
Topic started by modgirl
Would love to her other''s views please.
Older wife younger husband divorced after 22 years of marriage.

One child in full time education for another year unless university becomes a reality (which she would like to) so in full time education until 2018 possibly. She''s 17 and lives with me. She doesn''t spend any time with her father save the odd lunch now and again.

He earns considerably more than me. My monthly net income is almost exactly a third of his. £1,280 per month. His around £3,200. I work full time, as does he. I have just 5 working years left he has 20 I would think. His pension pot is just over 10 times the size of mine. (his £210,000 mine £28,000).

He lives with a new (much younger) partner who has two children from her previous relationship. He claims he needs to pay reduced child maintenance because he helps his partner with her children, which seemingly he is allowed to do and nothing I can do about that. This is despite the fact that the children''s father is a high earner and paying a lot of child maintenance and having them 3 nights each week.

We jointly own the marital home which my daughter and I remain in. I have paid all bills and mortgage entirely myself (with help from lodgers) since he moved out just over two years ago which I think is fair considering I''m living here and could just about afford with a little inventive financing! I have never asked for anything apart from child maintenance.

He says he has started court proceedings to reach financial settlement. This was said in a letter from his Sols in May this year but I''ve heard nothing from the court as to timetable yet.

I have prepared form E and have it lodged with my solicitor. He has informed them that my form E is ready if he wished to prepare his. He suggested that we could use the information on form E to re-open negotiations about a month ago. As yet no response so clearly they would rather take it to court.

mediation failed earlier on this year. Two reasons. On arriving there, he still had not prepared any financial information and changed what he considered to be his pension pot but refused to provide any written proof by way of CETV etc. Just sat there expecting to negotiate on his word entirely.

Plus the mediator said "why on earth do you think it should be anything other than 50/50. Just go to court, because I''m telling you that''s what you''ll get and you can waste your money on a lawyer telling you you''ll get more - that''s what solicitor''s do. They tell you what you want to hear so you''ll keep giving them your money".

I kid you not that is what the mediator said. He also took phone calls and sent text messages on his mobile while ex and I were talking at the table so I got up and left saying I was not prepared to pay £260 an hour to someone that wasn''t even listening to the clients. Ex took that as the opportunity to say that mediation had failed and court was the only answer.

He has stated that he expects (wants) a straight 50/50 split across the board of both assets (house equity and joint pensions). He is aware that if that is the case I will be unable to house myself as I don''t have enough income to be able rent and no ability to mortgage due to factors of age and low income. He claims that our daughter being almost 18 should be taken out of the equation altogether as she is no longer considered a dependent.

Our mortgage is due to be finished in 7 years time. Once finished in 7 years time there would be enough to buy me a house mortgage free after an interest only part of the mortgage is paid off. However, he claims he wants a larger part of the house equity to enable him to buy his new partner and him a house and I have a larger amount of the pension pot. He is suggesting this because he knows that I can cash in the of the pension being over 55. This is not an option for him. However I''ve said that I don''t want to do that because I would end up paying over 30% tax on the amount cashed in. In other words, in reality a pension pot of £100,000 would only realise me about £65,000 towards the purchase of a house.

Before anyone looks at this little lot and thinks blimey what''s her problem, I have to explain. The area I work and live in and would need to live in (so I could afford to travel to work) a one bed unit would cost in the region of £190,000 and two bed Absolute minimum £280,000. I consider I need two bedrooms because my daughter still lives with me and will continue to need a home until she''s managed to secure a job and set up home herself. Not an unreasonable request I would say.

On today''s property prices I''m looking at coming out of this with around £150,000 in cash and a very slim chance of a mortgage of around £50,000 which would cost me more in repayments than our current mortgage. Still not enough to buy a house.

To rent around here I''m looking at a minimum of £1,000 per month and with an income of just £1,400 per month I am
absolutely sure I won''t be able to rent.

I could of course rent and not buy and use the equity up by paying in advance each year (I would have to do that as my salary does not match up to the renting criteria) that would mean the equity would have been used up by the age of 70 if I were to pay the going rate for a two bed property around here. That would then leave me needing either social housing at the age of 70 or homelessness I fear as I would have retired by then with just the minimum state pension and a very small pension amount in the region of £200 per month. I would have, of course used up the pension pot from him paying rental for 10 years.

The Divorce Calculator on here says 70/30 split with daughter keyed into the equation and 60/40 if I take her out of the equation altogether. However, he is sticking to his guns saying he needs to purchase a larger house to enable him, his new partner and the children to be housed and therefore requires a larger amount of cash from the house.

I can remain in the house (for now) as we secured an obscenely low mortgage rate (0.49% above Bank of England base throughout the term of the mortgage which sits at .99% at the moment). So even if I were able to secure a mortgage at the moment (which I very much doubt) it will be

a: much smaller than current mortgage and
b: cost possibly double what the current mortgage costs each month in repayments.

Conversely ex is renting a largish house at a rate which is almost three times the mortgage repayments on our house. He and his partner clearly earn enough to cover the rent on this large house. If they didn''t they would not have secured it after financial checks as it has been rented through an agent.

His partner works full time also. She is also only in her mid 30s so many, many years working life left and many years of pension contributions to make. They are planning to marry next year.

Does this look like a 50/50 split? I''m working on the premise that our needs are for a two bed house and that a greater share of the equity and the pension should be awarded to me on the basis of lack of income, lack of ability to increase income. Lack of opportunity to build up pension pot. Lack of time earning a salary anyway.

Ideally I would like to have a larger percentage of the house and a smaller percentage of the pension. I am happy to trade those two against each other arriving at around 60/40 split across the board of both assets. He however wants equal share of both. Split the house and the pensions. It is my preference to leave him with the pensions in his name and me keep mine but me have 80-90% of the equity in the house.

His suggestion would result in large costs implications. The cost of transferring pension amounts. The cost of selling etc. The cost of me buying also. The large tax bill (circa £36,000) I would face if I cashed in all of his part of the pension pot to buy or give myself enough cash to rent up front for 10 years.

Am I being unrealistic in going down the route of not just lying down and accepting his insistence that I am entitled to 50% of everything and nothing more?

If anyone has had the patience to read this little lot I would be most grateful to hear the views of likely outcome through the courts.

  • hadenoughnow
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20 Sep 15 #466955 by hadenoughnow
Reply from hadenoughnow
Just looking at percentages is not very helpful. You have to consider needs and how they can be met.

Your immediate need is a 2 bed property. Your daughters needs cannot be ignored especially if she goes to university. His first family must take priority. You should not be disadvantaged because of his new relationship and responsibilities.

So you need to look at a realistically priced two bed property. You also need to find out for sure how much mortgage you can get.

He will have a much greater mortgage capability so that too is relevant. As he is cohabiting, it will also be assumed that he is sharing his living costs.

Ideally you would have enough to buy with a small mortgage.

He would have a small deposit and a larger mortgage. This would cancel out any requirement for him to pay spousal maintenance - although a small amount if sm may still be appropriate.

The pension pot should also be considered. The proportions for division would depend on the equity split to a certain extent. It may be considered that your share of the pension has been used to offset the fact you have more of the equity. However it is not unheard of for there to be an unequal equity split and a 50:50 pension share.

You don''t say how old he is. But I assume he has plenty of time to recover his pension situation before he reaches retirement age. You do need to establish what kind of pension it is. CETV can considerably undervalue some types of pension.

You may need an actuary to help work out how to divide the pension to ensure equality of income in retirement based on the existing pot. This could mean you get more than 50% because of the disparity in your ages.

Have you actually divorced yet? If he continues to drag his heels on a financial settlement you can take the initiative yourself. You could also investigate applying for maintenance pending suit to help towards legal costs.

Whatever happens you need to keep channels of communication open. I would advise working out a reasonable offer and sending it to his solicitor clearly marked as an open offer very early on in the proceedings. If he refuses a reasonable offer that matches what a judge later decides in court, he could be liable for your costs.

Hadenoughnow

  • modgirl
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20 Sep 15 #466963 by modgirl
Reply from modgirl
Thank you for your reply. A 50/50 split of the pension and a 70/30 split of the house would result in a 60/40 split across the two assets (which is all we have to argue over now).

This is the offer I would make if he doesn''t agree to me keeping the lion''s share of the equity and leaving his pension alone.

That would leave me with £230,000 of cash from house equity and £126,00 in a pension pot. I would clearly have to cash in some of the pension pot to buy or rent to would end up with £28,000 in pension pots (mine now) and £68,000 from cashing in his part of pension which I could put towards purchasing. I have applied for a mortgage in principle and was offered just 60,000. However, when I tried to take it further and my age was factored in the mortgage product was no longer there. Not so bad if that''s the deal I can get him to agree. So realistically I''m looking at trying to purchase mortgage free, which is the best and most sensible thing to do given my age of 60 next month :S

As I said before a two bed around start at £280,000 for a flat up to £350,000 for terraced house. I don''t think my desires are unreasonable. He will get £98,000 from it and yes he will have to get a larger mortgage but that is surely doable?

I am so worried I''m going to get slated in court and told I''m being unreasonable.

???

  • Kadafi
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20 Sep 15 #466964 by Kadafi
Reply from Kadafi
I''m sorry but this is just my opinion. You have been married to this man for 22 years and have a daughter who is nearly 18. Why not just agree on 50/50 and go your own way. Put yourself in his position, worked and been the main bread winner your whole life and then have 60-70% ripped away from you.

People think too much about what they could legally get hold off instead of being fair and getting the whole thing resolved a lot quicker, cheaper and a lot less pain.

  • iusedtolovehim
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20 Sep 15 #466965 by iusedtolovehim
Reply from iusedtolovehim
kadafi - sorry, what a load of b*llocks! Greengirl''s husband may well have been the breadwinner but he would not have been able to without her support. Do you know how much childcare costs?

I''ve just divorced my lousy cheating husband after a 26 year marriage. He earns 3x my salary, when we met we were earning the same. One of us had to put their career on the back burner when the children were growing up. I got 90% of the FMH and equality of income in pensions in return for a Clean Break. I bl**dy deserve it.

Go greengirl and do not accept 50/50!

  • Kadafi
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20 Sep 15 #466966 by Kadafi
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Yes I know how much childcare costs because I work and had to pay full time childcare for a 2 year old while my wife sodded off back to her home country. Yes I held down a full time job and took care of my 2 year old son on my own, so don''t think you women are anything special.

Her daughter is nearly 18 years old so I don''t see how childcare can come into it. It basically comes across as "I want to be mortgage free because I earn low money and my stbx can mortgage himself up to the hill"

It doesn''t effect me what green girl does, she will need to put her case forward and let a judge decide. If Greengirl is already worried that she would be seen as being unreasonable, odds are she is.

  • maccy2
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20 Sep 15 #466967 by maccy2
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Kadafi, please can you show some respect to women?

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