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Sell the house or take if further?

  • Monitor441
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19 Oct 07 #4921 by Monitor441
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OBE's 1

I think you have missed the point of my post. I am just trying to give a balanced view of what is good and bad about a charge on a house. I haven't stated whether I think Sparky or anyone else is doing the right or wrong thing. I don't know all the facts so I am not giving an opinion.

For your information, I am a man in exactly the same position as Sparky's ex2b and below I will give details of what has happened in my situation

My wife had an affair during the middle of a £170K refurbishment on our house. We had moved out and were living in rented accommodation whilst the house was gutted and rebuilt. Three months after moving back in I found out about the affair and was told by her 'I want to be with my new man, not with you'. Before the refurb, we had no mortgage. After the refurb there was a £120K mortgage. I have moved out and rented a house nearby and my two children live with me on a 50:50 basis, week on week off. I have rented a house large enough so that they have all the things they need at both houses - each has a bedroom, bikes, toys etc. I have had to fund this out of my own pocket as all my equity will be tied up in the FMH until my youngest is 18 and all the savings were used in the refurb so to keep the mortgage as low as possible. I will have a charge on the former FMH and I will be paid this when the charge is triggered. As I have stated in the post above, my ex2b will have to pay me out a huge amount when it happens, which means she will have to sell the house and my children will not have that house as their home anymore. My taking a charge on the property still means animosity and grief in 10 years time when I have to be paid out. I would rather have the money now but that is how it is.

On the subject of CGT, if the charge is agreed as a Mesher and done within 3 years of the joint owner leaving the FMH, then any monies that come out are CGT exempt. FYI I am not a banker, I am a salesman who has done his research on a lot of things to ensure that any decisions I make during the divorce are informed decisions. All I was trying to do was pass on some of that knowledge.

In future, please don't attack people who are trying to give information out so others may benefit.

Have a nice weekend

M441

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19 Oct 07 #4932 by Sera
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I just wanted to make the point, that I found the information of having a 'Charge' (based on a percentage of ownership) quite an interesting point.

That advise might not be the best option to the original poster, but it's quite an attrcative option to me, so I would like to thank Monitor for his illustration.

I have earned my x2b £600k on property dealing in the short time we've been togther, through very clever negotiation with Land development specialists.

In mediation, he's offered me a settlement of £24k.

So he walks out of our marriage with all his assets intact, plus a further £576k profit !!!

Erm, I don't think so!

He is now denying both my contributions and the offers we had lined up from property developers, whilst stating that the profit is irrelevent since he no longer wishes to sell.

I've since seen e-mails to the developers stating he'll sell when he's got rid of me!) We had a Property Partnership, so why should he then profit from me?

However, when I read Monitors post about putting a 'Charge' on the property, that would help me enormously if my ex was to sell in the near future.

It's been useful, although I know OBE's situation is different because of kids.

I think it at least illustrates the options. :)

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19 Oct 07 #4937 by OBEs 1 canoodly
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SERA

I think you have taken that wrong. OBE doesn't have kids!! Well he does but all grown up with problems of their own.

In fact my advice was in favour of the charge because as monitor was pointing out in a negative way to Sparky she would have to pay her ex more in 15 20 years time whatever but it would be no different to paying out now because everything financially would be relative.

Whereas, in your case it would be a very good thing for you to keep a charge on the house!! I'm all for that!! I'm just saying in Sparky's case whether she takes the money now or remains in the home and pays out later either way she will be in a reasonably good position because whatever she can do with her money now will be exactly the same in 15 20 years time except at a higher relative amount (unless property crashes which is looking very likely) get my drift???

I just felt Monitor put it across in a way that could cause argument between Sparky and ex because he was making it sound like her ex would be better off in 20 years time if he retains a charge but that is not the case they would be in the same position!!!

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23 Oct 07 #5149 by OBEs 1 canoodly
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Hello Monitor,

Have been trying to find the time to reply. I am sorry you thought I was attacking you!!

We don't attack on here but respond and sometimes we respond in what seems like an unacceptable way!! I am here today to offer my humble apologies as I admit in some ways I probably did miss the pointyou were making.

I just felt a little cross with Sparky that she used the words "take him to the cleaners"!! You may have noticed that got quite a lot of people's backs up on here because this is the first thing people (and women get the major vote on this one) seem to want to do to their ex's (mainly unsuspecting men who tend to back down and give in!!)

Sparky had been offered what I felt was a good offer NOW and yet still has that devilish thought going on in the back of her mind that she can get more. Having gone through hell with my OBE's divorce over the past 18 months knowing that he was perfectly willing to come to a very amicable agreement with his incredibly stubborn wife, I get really cross with people who are given perfectly good offers to go away and get on with their lives without putting themselves through 2, 3, or even 5 years of emotional and financial hell going down the legal rout simply because greed got in their way.

I only got heated with your calculation because the point I was trying to make is that whether she sells now or in 20 years her position would be the same relatively speaking. I also got a bit annoyed about how you went on to put the cat amongst the pidgeons by assuming her ex would go out and get on the property ladder again thus giving him two investments to her one. Its not really that simple. Most women get this evil thought stuck in their minds that once they have got to keep the marital home and the ex is paying them SM and CM that the ex now is free to go out partying, meeting other women, buying property having great holidays when to be honest the reverse of that is closer to the truth. I see so many men really struggling to pay the mortgage and keep their kids and have to pay for a new life for themselves. Most end up in cheap bedsits wondering how the hell they are going to ever get any kind of life AND they suffer dreadfully at the hand of wives who don't allow them access to their kids!!!

Women are just as equal when it comes to working and investing. I should know, I am one!! However, there aren't many of us who are fair with our men, there are still plenty who want to have it all and put on the "poor little woman at home with the kids - can't possibly work" thing when it suits them. I'm afraid that doesn't cut with me or a lot of women out there like me! I have run a big house two demanding kids (aren't they all bless 'em!!??) my own business, my ex's business, his accounts, dinner parties and cleaned my own home!!!!! No I'm not superwoman, I am quite ordinary and yet I still blame myself that I didn't do a great job!!! I get quite cross when women want to take their men "to the cleaners". I understand there are some instances where maybe it is quite appropriate if the man has been the ultimate B**t*rd but then there are women who can mirror image that role too....so yes good and bad in both!!!

Reading your particular situation, I feel for you, you sound like a good man who is sharing his responsibility for his kids, as do a lot of men and it was that last paragraph that said it all and made me realise I had missed your point....that you would prefer to have the money now, you like most other men probably feel a bit hard done to and rightly so but equally you realise your kids need to remain in the home that they love - difficult eh? So actually those last words were trying to make Sparky realise it would be easier to sort out the problem now rather than later so as not to cause grief 10 years down the line. So much could be achieved now to create a happier future rather than the bleakness of having to go through all of this again!!

Yes I am fully aware of the 3 year CGT thing and also when I used the word banker thats why I followed it up with "meant in the nicest way" I didn't say it with two meanings!! By the way I too am a saleswoman - pleased to meet you and once again my sincere apologies for my confusion with your advice!!

I wish you lots of happiness whereever your future takes you.

regards

OBEs 1

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23 Oct 07 #5150 by OBEs 1 canoodly
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Hello Monitor,

Have been trying to find the time to reply. I am sorry you thought I was attacking you!!

We don't attack on here but respond and sometimes we respond in what seems like an unacceptable way!! I am here today to offer my humble apologies as I admit in some ways I probably did miss the pointyou were making.

I just felt a little cross with Sparky that she used the words "take him to the cleaners"!! You may have noticed that got quite a lot of people's backs up on here because this is the first thing people (and women get the major vote on this one) seem to want to do to their ex's (mainly unsuspecting men who tend to back down and give in!!)

Sparky had been offered what I felt was a good offer NOW and yet still has that devilish thought going on in the back of her mind that she can get more. Having gone through hell with my OBE's divorce over the past 18 months knowing that he was perfectly willing to come to a very amicable agreement with his incredibly stubborn wife, I get really cross with people who are given perfectly good offers to go away and get on with their lives without putting themselves through 2, 3, or even 5 years of emotional and financial hell going down the legal rout simply because greed got in their way.

I only got heated with your calculation because the point I was trying to make is that whether she sells now or in 20 years her position would be the same relatively speaking. I also got a bit annoyed about how you went on to put the cat amongst the pidgeons by assuming her ex would go out and get on the property ladder again thus giving him two investments to her one. Its not really that simple. Most women get this evil thought stuck in their minds that once they have got to keep the marital home and the ex is paying them SM and CM that the ex now is free to go out partying, meeting other women, buying property having great holidays when to be honest the reverse of that is closer to the truth. I see so many men really struggling to pay the mortgage and keep their kids and have to pay for a new life for themselves. Most end up in cheap bedsits wondering how the hell they are going to ever get any kind of life AND they suffer dreadfully at the hand of wives who don't allow them access to their kids!!!

Women are just as equal when it comes to working and investing. I should know, I am one!! However, there aren't many of us who are fair with our men, there are still plenty who want to have it all and put on the "poor little woman at home with the kids - can't possibly work" thing when it suits them. I'm afraid that doesn't cut with me or a lot of women out there like me! I have run a big house two demanding kids (aren't they all bless 'em!!??) my own business, my ex's business, his accounts, dinner parties and cleaned my own home!!!!! No I'm not superwoman, I am quite ordinary and yet I still blame myself that I didn't do a great job!!! I get quite cross when women want to take their men "to the cleaners". I understand there are some instances where maybe it is quite appropriate if the man has been the ultimate B**t*rd but then there are women who can mirror image that role too....so yes good and bad in both!!!

Reading your particular situation, I feel for you, you sound like a good man who is sharing his responsibility for his kids, as do a lot of men and it was that last paragraph that said it all and made me realise I had missed your point....that you would prefer to have the money now, you like most other men probably feel a bit hard done to and rightly so but equally you realise your kids need to remain in the home that they love - difficult eh? So actually those last words were trying to make Sparky realise it would be easier to sort out the problem now rather than later so as not to cause grief 10 years down the line. So much could be achieved now to create a happier future rather than the bleakness of having to go through all of this again!!

Yes I am fully aware of the 3 year CGT thing and also when I used the word banker thats why I followed it up with "meant in the nicest way" I didn't say it with two meanings!! By the way I too am a saleswoman - pleased to meet you and once again my sincere apologies for my confusion with your advice!!

I wish you lots of happiness whereever your future takes you.

regards

OBEs 1

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23 Oct 07 #5154 by soulmanuk
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my wife left me and the kids 12 months ago to live debt free with another bloke, she has not paid anything towards the debts, told the mortgage company to repossess the house making us homeless, turned down mediation, wanted a divorce but stalled on signing anything, told her i would take on all the debt leaving her with financial commitments, i could re mortgage pay all the debts this would give me an extra £200 a month for us to live off ( currently have to borrow £250 off a mate to keep a roof over our heads. as we are at the bottom of the property ladder i cant downsize only thing i can do is get a re mortgage i cant get a mortgage cos house prices are to high, i cant rent cos they are nearly twice the re mortgage payments, she knows there is no money to be made on the property after debts are paid and i cant afford to provide a home for the kids. she says the kids can live with her but they dont want to. she said in a letter it was all her fault but is taking me to the cleaners. she has a good life style with her new partner but says she has no money, she works fulltime and only as living esstentials to pay. she has enough to pay half of the debt and still have a comfortable life while the divorce etc goes through, she is spending the money she thinks she is going to get from a settlement but nothing as been decided yet as she wont discuss it and says go through sol but i cant afford one and i have been turned down for legal aid for some reason. here are some figures house worth £70000 debts £40000 (increasing as i can only afford to pay £500 of the £750 p m ) re mortgage most i can get is £42000 ( £280 p m ) if we do a 50 - 50 that she wants that only gives me £57000 cheapest house is £70000, rents for the house i need is £450, i have £14 p m after all the essentials have been paid if i gave in to her and rented i would have £15000 in the bank and be better off by £50 a month but any WTC i receive would be reduced how long will the money last 12- 18 months. you say TAKE THEM TO THE CLEANERS well she is i think i am well and truly screwed. ANY ADVICE WOULD BE HELPFUL

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23 Oct 07 #5156 by Fiona
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Umm.....

I just felt a little cross with Sparky that she used the words "take him to the cleaners"!! You may have noticed that got quite a lot of people's backs up on here because this is the first thing people (and women get the major vote on this one) seem to want to do to their ex's (mainly unsuspecting men who tend to back down and give in!!)


Men might not exactly use the same words but they can be equally unrealistic and given the same circumstances behave in a similar way. I was financially the stronger spouse and my ex wanted to 'screw' me for everything despite me having made generous concessions. The split was 67:33 in his favour although the children lived with me. In about 20% of relationships women earn more than their partners and experiences like mine are not uncommon.

....they suffer dreadfully at the hand of wives who don't allow them access to their kids!!!


Again when men are in the same situation and are the main child carer they often behave in a similar fashion. More than 10% of single parents are fathers. There is a flip side when children suffer dreadfully because the NRP is unreliable, can't commit or just walks away. Also in many cases pursued through the courts the contact awarded isn't taken up.

Women are just as equal when it comes to working .....


Working practices still vary hugely between men and women. 95% of men with dependent children work in inflexible full time jobs whereas 70% of women with dependent children work in flexible and/or part time jobs to fit around family commitments. In my line of work a career gap of 3 years equates to a 40% drop in salary.

I am fully aware of the 3 year CGT thing


On divorce the charge on the property is done as a "Mesher" order which effectively means there is no CGT liability when the property is eventually sold as long as the deeds are transferred into the one spouse's name within the initial 3 year period.

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