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Liabilities and SM

  • sillywoman
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17 Apr 12 #324608 by sillywoman
Reply from sillywoman
Of course you will, and no they dont hate you, they hate that the life as they know it has been torn apart by you.

Dont forget that divorce affects children hugely, not only the loss of the parent that was there when they woke and went to bed, but also having to move house etc. etc.

Hopefully, one day they will at least have some kind of relationship with you. I hope my girls have a relationship with their dad, but Im not holding my breath, because as long as he hates me I know that simply aint gonna happen!

  • hadenoughnow
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19 Apr 12 #325001 by hadenoughnow
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I have thought long and hard about your situation and that of your stbx and the children. I think you are doing yourself no favours by producing figures that seek to skew matters in your favour. You are playing the “poor me” card on a salary that frankly most of us can only dream about. If you continue to do that and end up before a court, I am afraid you are likely to come badly unstuck.

In looking at the figures, I have ignored my personal feelings about the way you have portrayed your personal; and financial situation. This is exactly what a judge would do. However as a divorced mother of three children (not a situation of my making), I would just say that I think you need to show a great deal more empathy for your stbx and the children. They are all coping with a massive lifestyle change and no matter whether you feel your stbx has had a part to play in all this, your children most certainly have not. Two are teenagers and it is the worst possible time for this to happen to them. Your stbx will be dealing with their feelings as well as her own, plus a seven year old who may simply not understand and on top of that coping with the day to day pressures of running a busy household.

This is my back of a fag packet view of the finances. I have done my best to glean information from your posts.

Your income: 84k net = 7k a month
25% of 7k = 1750
Leaves 5250

It could be argued that costs of working should be deducted (am not sure if you could argue that this should be done BEFORE CM is calculated)

Say £593 (train and parking)
Leaves 4700 NET per month.
(some 500 a month is car loan)
Leaves 4200 NET per month.

39000 net = 3250 a month
Of which 1750 would be CM

So income less CM is 1500 made up of ? wages, child benefit? It would be extremely helpful to know what is actual earnings and what is benefits/ctc.
If she increased her hours to 16 a week to reach the working tax credits threshold of 16 hours, how much more would she actually receive once the additional earning have been taken into account?

Capital needs:
Marital pot would appear to be:
FMH equity 280k
LESS Joint CC debt of £20k (this would reduce outgoings)
Total: 260k

The next big questions would be how much it would cost to buy an appropriate property and could she raise a mortgage to help her do this? You have suggested that an appropriate property for each of you could be purchased for 250k apiece.

You have also suggested she could get a mortgage for £120k. Do you have documentary evidence for this – has she seen a mortgage advisor to find out what she may be able to get? In a previous post you suggested that such a mortgage would cost her £430 a month. I assume this would be on a low rate interest-only basis?
suggests that 120k at 4.3% over 25 years would be £430 on an interest only basis
A repayment mortgage at that rate would be some £660 a month .. which on a net income of more than £3k a month seems perfectly affordable BUT bear in mind that when the older children are 18, she will no longer be eligible for many of the benefits OR CM … so her income will be drastically cut even though they will, no doubt, still need a home even if they are away at uni.

She may be able to increase her working hours once the youngest is a bit older .. but I would also want to know if her earning capacity had been reduced because she has been out of the f/t workplace as a result of her childcare responsibilities.

In another post you have suggested that she should have £200k and you should have 70k. Assuming the CC bills are paid off, the split would have to be altered a little .. I would suggest to 200:60 (bearing in mind the CC debt costs would no longer be a factor).

This would mean she needs a mortgage of some £50k and you would need a mortgage of circa 190k (assuming you buy an equivalent property – you could buy something smaller/cheaper). On a repayment basis at a rate of 4.3% over 25 years, this would cost you just over £1k a month and her around £275 (This equates pretty much to the difference in your net incomes once CM and travels costs are taken out). However, as above, it should be borne in mind that a very significant proportion of her income is child-related and will not last forever (and yes, I am aware that yours too may not given the state of the economy).

You do have some personal debts which will affect your outgoings … and she will also have legal fees to pay which will have an impact on the capital division. A court may feel it was appropriate – as you have funded your fees from earnings, that she too should be assisted with her costs in some way – perhaps by way of a larger share of the equity although tbh I doubt it would go beyond an 80:20 (circa 210:50)split (but it might – especially if you retain your pension).

Your debts would appear to be a 10k overdraft and a car loan with some 5.5k outstanding. In one of your posts you gave the figures for paying this all off within 12 months. The overdraft and loan together added up to some £1300 a month. In my view this figure is unhelpful and is simply there to skew the figures. Yes if you paid all this off in one year (and factored in the CC bill as well), your outgoings would exceed your income but only for that year. Realistically a sum of the size would be paid off over a longer period of time .. and if the joint debt is paid off from the capital it would not be a factor.

Paying it off over a period of 3 or even 5 years would bring the monthly sum down to a much more realistic 520 or 340 a month (at 10%). Therefore the calculation in this post www.wikivorce.com/divorce/Divorce-Advice...bilities-and-SM.html
which put annual outgoings at some 90k, would be changed to remove the CC cost (1666 a month) and reduce the OD/loan payments by 780 or 960 a month. This would make the monthly total some 2500 (or 2625)lower … a saving of some 30k on annual outgoings which would leave you with a surplus of some 25k over 3 years … and no debt (bar mortgage after then)..

In your calculation you have also included SM of 416 a month making your total commitment to your stbx and children some 2150 a month.

Now, I am not sure if this an acceptable option but I would suggest you consider the following:

• Marital (CC) debt paid from marital pot. Pot now = 260k.

• STBX receives £210k (to fund rehousing with mortgage + legal bills). House in her sole name. Leaves you free to buy with mortgage on your own.

• You receive £50k (deposit for new property)

• You retain your pension (assuming pot is only £100k. If CETV is more than this view may differ. She can use new property as pension fund when she downsizes in future).

• Global Maintenance (SM and CM combined) of say £2000 per month for 5 years (when eldest finishes first degree), reducing to 1500 after this point (you may want to include further reductions if it is possible or rely on application to vary) . Order to cease and revert to CSA if she remarries/cohabits for more than 6 months.

• You each pay your own personal debts.

I would put it in an OPEN offer.


  • somuch2know2
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19 Apr 12 #325020 by somuch2know2
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I haven’t skewed figures to work in my favour. Those are the numbers, all of them.
Thank you for your time and your fag packet comments, and here are the answers.

If I can get more asset from the house- clear all debt, I will be able to attain a mortgage. I probably wont mortgage high, but I will need something to house all 3 of my children should they decide they love me again.

I don’t think someone can argue CSA, as its net (plain and simple)
Total debt:
Car loan (bought during marriage): 12K
Marital debt: 20K
My credit card debt: 10K
Total: 42K

Her Income looks like this assuming she works maximum of 16hrs (which would allow for her to study for qualified teacher positions)

Earned income: 6k
Tax credits: 8K
Child Benefits: 2,428
Child support: 20,580
SM:5K for 5 years unless cohabitation 6 months, or remarriage
Total: 42,212
Monthly: 3,517.66

Capital needs:
Marital pot would appear to be:
FMH equity 280k

The cost of a house 4 bed will be between 219- 250
And I have suggested houses for both of us within these lines.
She has suggested houses for me in this range and for her between 325-350
Yes- I have proof of her mortgage capability from an IFA, validated by my account manager at my bank stating the same.
She would qualify for a preferential rate as her LTV is low and would be looking at 2%-3% but for the sake of parity we will say 5%
Just because someone CAN borrow that much doesn’t mean they NEED to. If I get the 100K, that leaves her with 185K
185 deposit
20K legal
Total: 165
Mortgage required: 80K for a £230K property (includes all costs)- going mid-range just to demonstrate realities
Repayment £467.67p/m

Youngest child is 7, middle is 13 – so CS is there for quite a while

I want a clean slate from debt and I don’t want financial ties to her post divorce, which is why I will barter the extra capital in exchange for no charge. House can be ALL hers.
Each pay own costs.

This is put in a “without predjudice”

  • sillywoman
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19 Apr 12 #325022 by sillywoman
Reply from sillywoman
I do agree that you are being a little optimistic.

I got all the equity of £170,000, plus half his pension (CETV 375,000) plus £500 sm for 5 years plus CM.

His salary was £2500.

No mesher, no nothing.

  • somuch2know2
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19 Apr 12 #325023 by somuch2know2
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What does he pay you in CS? I am guessing not much if he was netting 250.

Her income is substantial- and she can easily afford this.

Her refusal will be out of spite,

Also- can I ask your age? I think that matters as she is relatively young

  • sillywoman
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19 Apr 12 #325028 by sillywoman
Reply from sillywoman
CM does down so that has nothing to do with it - also CM is for the child, clothes, outings, food, bills etc., it is not for the parent. As is child tax credit

I was working full time at the time and have been out of work for quite a while, but today got a new job!!!!!! Starts next month and will be netting £1000 more than him.

As Cheryls new song says - Screw You! (to my ex husband)

Sorry, but my ex is a nasty piece of work, a serial cheating that set out tomake my life hell for divorcing him.

But KARMA today has been at work!

  • somuch2know2
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19 Apr 12 #325039 by somuch2know2
Reply from somuch2know2
Congrats on your new job.
CM will go down- but not for some time, so it can be considered a constant for mortgage capability.

Even if its for the kids- it doesnt mean it will be used on them. I dont doubt it will be, but I am sure she will continue to get those stupid plastic nails and expensive shoes.

Karma is a great thing. Maybe this is mine, but my STBX will get hers for being so vindictive.

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