Help Urgent Advice Please.

Thank you all so much for the posts. I have already this morning dispatched the papers she delivered to my lawyers. I am certain of a numbers of things:

1. Regarding the harassment issue I was never interviewed, cautioned or arrested and my lawyer put this in writing to her solicitors saying it was a "cheap shot".
2.The boy's are adamant about where they want to live and I am sure they have not delivered a mix message on that. My ex is up the road with her new partner and my boy's have categorically told her and me and the wider family they are going nowhere near her or him.
3.They want an opportunity to tell "whoever" what they want and in the case of contact they are requesting once a month!
4. I am concerned that this whole process is having a detrimental affect on the boy's especially at a time when they need stability at school whilst they study for their GCSE's.
Finally, I do intend to fight it. Some of her comments are a bit of "you said-I said" does the court really take this into account and should I make sure I have legal representation at the first hearing?
Brunswick.

Personally, I would say yes, make sure you have legal representation. You don't want to run the risk of getting anything 'wrong'. I am afraid you are entering into the residence 'game' and ensuring you have representation will avoid any costly mistakes.

the point about GCSEs is very, very valid and one you want to be making very loudly if you get the opportunity. Your boys should also be making this point - don't you think we've been through enough this year and now you're hassling us when we're doing exams?!

It will all work out, I'm sure. I look forward to your updates.

mummybear38 wrote:

Agree with nbm you need to get in touch with the Police asap with regard the alleged harrassment warning/order although Brunswick Police are able to record "verbal" harrassment warnings in fact it is my understanding that a "verbal" warning has to be given before a formal harrassment notice can be issued but don't hold me to that as I'm not a Police Officer lol. (Just from what I was told by a Police Officer who gave a verbal harrassment warning to my partner's ex).

Now becoming abit of an old hand at this as it's my ex's speciality and in fact has now been stated by the police station that she knows all the right words to use to ensure a response.

Our station works on:

You're first issued with a verbal warning by an officer which you're asked to sign for and notes taken by an officer.

If you breech this you will be given an order (usually down the station).

If you breech this they will then start criminal proceedings and investigations against you.

The reason I warned you about getting an actual letter from the police is that on my last child contact hearing my ex produced a letter stating that I had been given a harrassment warning from the police when in fact I had not.

The police had come out to investigate my ex's claim that I was harrassing her when in fact I was ringing our young son as per the contact order. The police officer looked at the contact order and stated that there was no case to answer and as such would not be writing anything up for it as I'd done nothing wrong.

After the contact case had been completed (as it was a final one to look at the breech by my ex and holiday entitlement for me with our children) I went to the police station where I made a complaint.

The letter had gone out in error to my ex who then used it to support her case. The station officer actually described my ex as being cute as she knows exactly what words to use so that they must respond even though they know she's wasting police time. A letter of apology was issued by the police confirming no record of any harrassment orders or warnings ever been given and my ex has received a letter confirming that any further allegations by her which are proven to be false will be looked at for wasting police time.

The judge luckily dismissed it as there was too much other evidence against my ex regarding denial of contact and it was agreed that my ex should not even have been involved in the telephone contact as it is between our son and me only. A copy of the police letter has been sent to the courts for recording on the children file as reference was made to the allegation in the judges decision.

Sometimes in court you only get a few hours and you need to look at creating the best case possible for yourself as you won't get a second chance. The chances are in your case the judge may look at an interim order whilst CAFCASS are investigating.

What you have to look at and prepare yourself for is the fact you will be looked at in exactly the same way as any mother who denies contact to the father and as such is trying to drive the other parent away (hence the harrassment claim) to remain in control of the children and to influence the minds of the children against the other parent.

You will be portrayed at the parent who is causing a problem for their children by not encouraging a healthy relationship between the children and their mother. This is why you need to take a step back from the case and let what your children say exactly what they want and make it clear that it comes totally from them and is nothing to do with you. The children would, if put totally in your ex's care, run away and live on the streets rather than be there and that all you in fact are doing is providing them with a loving, stable, place to stay where they are in a routine at a time which is critical to them.

T

nbm1708 - Great post.

Perhaps I should reiterate that I have never been given any form of "caution" by the Police. I was sent a standard letter to say that no action would be taken on either side etc.

Your last paragraph sums up perfectly the current position. My two boy's have consistently told their Mum what they think about her actions and their views on contact. I fear she is in for a very rude awakening but I do intend to protect myself and the boy's with all the resources I can muster. Right now it's about their stability, routine and well-being which is with me. At 16 I am sure they may have other thoughts and considerations but until then I will fight mine and their corner.

It's such a pity my ex does not see it that way.

Brunswick.

Brunswick wrote:

nbm1708 - Great post.

Perhaps I should reiterate that I have never been given any form of "caution" by the Police. I was sent a standard letter to say that no action would be taken on either side etc.

Your last paragraph sums up perfectly the current position. My two boy's have consistently told their Mum what they think about her actions and their views on contact. I fear she is in for a very rude awakening but I do intend to protect myself and the boy's with all the resources I can muster. Right now it's about their stability, routine and well-being which is with me. At 16 I am sure they may have other thoughts and considerations but until then I will fight mine and their corner.

It's such a pity my ex does not see it that way.

Brunswick.

As long as you have something in black and white from the police to use in evidence for your case that's fine as your word would not be enough if an allegation is made. I had no cautions or anything against me however that one mistake made by the police could have have made a substantial amount of difference if my ex hadn't already given me all the other hard copy evidence stating that she would not allow any telephone contact with our son.

You have to remember people lie and the courts are used to this which is why the court would, even if you had done it, expect you to deny it anyway and is why the actual evidence gives you the edge. You don't always get the chance to say hang on a minute I'll just get a letter from the police proving I'm telling the truth, it becomes what is there at that time.

Your other problem is -

"but I do intend to protect myself and the boy's with all the resources I can muster"

and

"At 16 I am sure they may have other thoughts and considerations but until then I will fight mine and their corner".

Whilst I fully appreciate you are probably doing this for the childrens best interests etc you have to stand out from every single mother who has gone through court and denied contact because she claims she is defending her child against someone whose only crime was in fact to leave her for another woman. The courts are inundated with this type of case and that's why they are looking to crack down on them because they're approaching meltdown.

Harsh fact is if you were a woman with that response and your ex was a man then the courts would give an interim court order of more than once a month to your ex and ask CAFCASS to prepare a report and look at reconcilliation meetings between your ex and the children with or without you as the case worker sees fit.

The reason my ex's residence order was resinded and the contact order dismissed when our oldest children were 14 was because I listened to what I was told and took a step back for the better and let our son make it clear.

I let it become clear that that all I was doing was in fact providing somewhere safe for our son to stay when he made his feelings clear that he would not stay with his mother and would rather live on the streets than be there. That all the wishes and feeling of the children were their own and that I had no influence. I let the children have a clear voice to the court.

Going in with claims of using all your resources and defending them etc may in fact work against you not for you as YOU may be seen to be a problem.

Your ex is doing nothing that hasn't been done a thousand times before and the courts have seen it before. The only difference is that it's a mother wanting contact and not having it.

The application of residence and contact is because like all negotiations you have to start high and then meet in the middle. The residence order will be dropped and the contact allowed.

The norm is usually alternate weekends and half school holidays unless some other factor other than your ex having left you for someone else kicks in.


T

nbm1708 - my boy's are saying that they will not accept alternate w/e's at her rented house with him - full stop.

What they are saying is yes to a few hours during the week and perhaps Sunday lunch for starters.

I agree that I will take a back-seat and allow the boy's very strong wishes to be heard.

Brunswick.

Hi

This may have already been answered cos I havent time to read the longer posts on this thread, however:

If you have been ordered to take the boys along, it is so that the judge or the Cafcass officer on the day can ascertain their wishes and feelings. Once they are known they will form the basis of any order.

With regards to formal and regulated contact, it is highly unlikely that any court will make and order that boys of this age are to have set contact - they are old enough to suit themselves, and what is likely to happen is that there would be a general order for contact to happen as and when they choose to have it.

You have nothing to worry about here, the court will be guided by the children and it is highly unlikely that your case will go beyond a first hearing.

Take care, good luck, and dont let them stress about it.