Ex doesnt like CAFCASS recommendation.

This is an extremely contentious area and one in which we should perhaps expect strong feelings.

Whatever one's views, and whichever side one is on, ALL court decisions in these cases will result in one parent being at best disappointed, at worst devastated.

It is quite widely agreed that the courts do not handle these cases well, and there are current calls for changes in legislation and for wider international agreement.

The suggestion that fathers try to block LTR applications, or apply for contact generally, out of a desire to 'control' mothers is a common one, but not one for which I've seen much evidence. I find it quite offensive because it seems to imply that a father's love for his child can never be quite as authentic as a mother's. Nevertheless, I wouldn't want to stop Fiona or anyone else making such suggestions, and I'm sure she finds some of my views intolerable!

Yes, relocation is an emotive issue and I wasn't implying that a father's love isn't as authentic as a mothers's. Rather emotions can run high and unfortunately either parent can loose sight of what is important. Anger is often secondary to more primary feelings of hurt, fear and uncertainty. We are all human after all.

Fiona wrote:

I agree with Shezi about being judgmental and too quick to jump to conclusions. We don't really know that much about why NRPs loose contact when LTR is granted - it could equally be that some NRPs have new priorities.

Fi,
I'm gonna take a wild guess at this now bare with me coz I'm spitballing...........could it be because they live in another country and logistically its a fecking nightmare to get there????I know that view may be from left field but I think I might be on to summit....what d'ya think???

This is a personal view and in no way an attack on angelheart.
In my opinion the resident parent yawn yawn(the mother) will end up thinking I want to do this.She then does it.She then pulls the joker out from up her sleeve and says no its not me who wants to do it it's in the best interests of the kids.And that is how it works.As for CAFCASS forget about it they might as well ask one question "Have you got a penXX" "Yes,I have actually" "ok then,taking that factor into account you're argument will have no validity whatsoever!!"
That's life all you divorced gents out there,thats the way it works.
All the best
Pete

hawaythelads wrote:

Fi,
I'm gonna take a wild guess at this now bare with me coz I'm spitballing...........could it be because they live in another country and logistically its a fecking nightmare to get there????I know that view may be from left field but I think I might be on to summit....what d'ya think???

Not to mention the huge cost of launching a court application in a foreign country, with the cost of accomodation, flights, hire car, translators, lawyers, etc, etc.

It's bad enough if you have to go to Scotland!

Every case is different and it isn't always the mother who is the resident parent wanting to relocate. Cases that spring to mind are that of an entrepreneur who lived just down the road, invested in Russia and relocated there and a Hague Convention case when the father didn't return with his son from a holiday. The son was deemed old enough for his opinion to count but when interviewed he couldn't decide where he wanted to live so by default he remained with the father.

In our case I was in business with my Father who lived abroad and died shortly before we separated. On average I spent two days a week in a different country which wasn't ideal because my ex worked away during the week, meaning there was no one available locally on those days for the children in an emergency. Also because my ex was away I needed to return every day in time for the children coming home from school. It was only down to good fortune that there were never any emergencies or delays in traveling.

Logistically it made far more sense to live abroad and it was feasible for the children to travel back every weekend in less time than it takes some parents to get around the M25 on a Friday teatime. It made little difference whether I paid to travel twice a week on business or paid fares for the children to come back to the UK. The deciding factor was that the eldest was about to embark on the regime of exams and from that point one or other child was preparing for an exam and it was increasingly difficult to uproot them from their friends.

Anyway returning to Angelheart moving to the other side of the Atlantic is rather a different proposition, but if I remember correctly her ex husband moved 500 miles away and chose to have contact just twice a year until she met her new husband and indicated she wanted to move abroad. I believe there is no history of contact being denied and there is no contact order. In these circumstances rather than protracted and expensive legal proceedings it seems to me it would be far more constructive for the NRP to have negotiated arrangements and seek agreement "by consent."

I seem to have opened a hornets nest here. I dont wish to imply that a Leave to Remove application is entered into lightly, it wasnt in my case. I thought long and hard about it.

I know there are many dads on these boards who are desperate to see their children, and I firmly believe children should never be used as pawns. I might have lots of differences with my ex, but he is the father of my children and has every right to see them. I have always encouraged contact, and offered him many chances to have them which he has refused. He has now moved back to our town (in view of the impending court case I suspect) and put in a request for Residency, which he was never interested in before, so I do believe that is only because if the impending Final Hearing. If he wants the children to live with him why didnt he apply before?
As regards my reasons for wanting to move. Well, the fact is that when couples split up, they do go their separate ways, and I have now married someone who lives in America. I didnt choose that, it just happened, and the dilemma is where do we live? I have a part time job in a call centre which doesnt rake in much money, my husband has a good job. If he comes here, he would be unemployed, maybe for ever (as he is 57), and I cant see how scraping every penny together all the time is good for the children. I have said to my ex that if we move, I guarantee the children would come back to the UK to visit, and get money from the sale of the house put into a trust fund to facilitate that. I would be returning to the UK in any event to visit my elderly mother. My ex would also be welcome to visit the US and see us whenever he wished. I know the situation isnt ideal, but its never going to be, whatever happens.
Someone made a comment about CAFCASS asking the children what they wanted to do, and would I let them take drugs if they wanted to do it. Of course not. But CAFCASS (and I know the opinion of some fathers about them) were appointed to talk to all the individuals involved, and the children said they wanted to try a move. In fact, I didnt get a particularly easy ride from the CAFCASS officer myself, she asked me some very searching questions. But I think her report was fair and well balanced, she made points in my exes favour as well, but did recommend that we move.
I have suffered guilt about this, and remorse. When I married my ex I never imagined in a million years things would come to this. But I also have to say that considering he wants to stop us moving, he has done some very silly things, certainly not what you would do if you were trying to prove commitment to your children.
I dont want to upset anyone on here, even if I dont agree with a post, I read and think about it, and its a great site.
Thanks for reading. x